Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
We're back again. This is Lacey and I'm Lauren and here again for another episode of the Llamas podcast.
[00:00:14] Speaker B: So, as always, we're going to ask that you, if you enjoy us and want to learn more, follow us on Instagram, YouTube, subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you listen to your podcast. And as always, DM us with your questions if you have them. And today, like usual, we're going to start off with a question.
[00:00:32] Speaker A: Yeah, so this is kind of a question that I'm asking for my cousin. So she doesn't have a will. And I've always told her to get a will, but really, I don't know. So she is single, she does not have any children, she's not married.
Would you recommend somebody get a will under those circumstances or I believe in South Carolina, if something happened to her.
[00:00:57] Speaker B: Which I hope it doesn't.
[00:00:58] Speaker A: I love you, Paige, but if it did, I believe it goes to her parents. And if she's fine with that, does she need a will?
[00:01:05] Speaker B: So I usually recommend a will because it can make things quicker for the probate process. Like, for instance, if somebody owned real property and you didn't have a will, you can't sell that real property without getting the court's permission. And then also with the wheels, you can name who you want to be your executor. And if she was wanting to leave, I know she has nieces and nephews. Like if she wanted to leave them something, she could do that in a wheel. And also I do recommend everybody, 18 plus, do those powers of attorney so that way somebody can make medical decisions for you and financial decisions for you if you're incapacitated. Because, for instance, if something happens and she's in a car wreck, her mom and dad, you know, no longer have access probably to her bank accounts. They don't know what bills she has. And the last thing you want is for your credit score to be really messed up because you are in an accident and have to go fight that. So, and with that, I think the powers of attorney kind of segue us into what we're going to talk about today. So today's topic, we're talking about Britney Spears and her conservatorship issues in pop culture.
[00:02:15] Speaker A: I'm so excited for this episode, by.
[00:02:17] Speaker B: The way, and I know so many people have opinions on free Britney, Brittany Neves or conservatorship. And I'm not here probably to debate that as much, but I want to go over what actually happens in a conservatorship and how this was just not, you know, some big ploy and that type stuff to take Britney's rights away. And maybe there were some alternatives that could have happened instead of the way they did the conservatorship. But we know everybody has your opinions on whether free Britney or not. I follow Brittany on Instagram. I definitely have my own opinions sometimes on her life. But so I'm kind of gonna.
I guess what we're gonna do is let's just talk about conservatorships and how it worked in Britney's case. So we know Brittany was in California. Different laws. So that's one thing. Every single state has different laws on conservatorships, guardianships, probate court, family court. So that's why as attorneys, we usually can only practice in limited states because the laws can vary so differently.
So with that in mind, California is a little different. So we'll talk about kind of the South Carolina way. But overall, it's the same concept of how this works.
So Britney Spears didn't just get declared incompetent by her dad. Yeah, I've read her autobiography. Definitely her dad, I do not think is a good person. Don't really think her mom is either. If you ever decide to read that, you will definitely have emotions.
Because she was treated horrible as a kid. Her parents basically used her as a cash cow. So there's no doubt she has issues because of that.
[00:04:05] Speaker A: So, Lauren, are there protections for kids in those situations or is it completely up to the parents?
[00:04:14] Speaker B: Well, the hard part is like, those are her parents. Somebody else. Like, yes, there is DSS and all these systems in place, but how many times are they looking into Mickey Mouse Club making so much money?
You also can get emancipated as a child, but. But you know, they started doing this to her before she even probably could say the word emancipated. Like from the beginning, it was that.
[00:04:38] Speaker A: Long that they had been abusing her financially, essentially.
[00:04:43] Speaker B: Did you read her autobiography?
[00:04:46] Speaker A: I'm scared to say no, because if Sean listens to this episode, he's going to come after me.
[00:04:52] Speaker B: She's not a good writer, but her story is very intense. I will tell you on the Autobot, I got on a kick of those last year. I read hers, obviously. I read Matthew Perry's and cried the whole time I read his. So hers, he writes a whole lot better than hers, but hers is very truthful to her life. Yeah, and her parents, pretty much since she was like, started out Mickey Mouse Club, they were Exploiting her. They didn't care what she did. I mean, she was doing drugs, drinking when she was very young and nobody cared.
She very much lacked parental authority.
And I think that type stuff should have came out in the conservatorship and maybe reasons why her dad should not have ever been appointed her conservator.
So realistically, when we have a conservatorship, it's not the judge just making a decision. Like most of the time there are medical doctors involved. So in Britney Spears case, there were probably multiple doctors that came in and said she's incompetent to make her own decisions. So that was kind of one of the biggest things is it wasn't just the judge, it wasn't just her dad. But here in South Carolina, she could have testified for herself. And I'm sure she may have done that, but I think more credibility could have been given to the fact her dad exploited her. Now, realistically, with conservatorships, your next to kin is usually in line to do that for you. So that would have been.
I'm. I know she'd been married, but at the time I don't think she was. I think all that with kfab.
[00:06:28] Speaker A: Yeah, she was divorced or going through a divorce.
[00:06:31] Speaker B: So at that point her parents would have been the ones who could bring this action. So. But I feel like the courts did not look into dad enough to know how much he exploited her. Do I think she needed the conservatorship? Probably. So she'd had a lot of trauma and, and managing money is hard. We see so many times how like these people in the rags to riches stories squander all their money. Because I've seen stories about so many pro athletes, you know, they don't. They went from growing up in poverty and now they're making millions of dollars and they don't have the financial sense and they don't know about all these programs and financial. There's a lot of bad people out there that will take advantage of them. But there are some good financial people. So I think in Britney's situation, it shouldn't have been her dad. The court should have looked into him more because dad had a lot of issues. Dad had passed lawsuits, dad had creditor issues.
Dad had used her.
[00:07:28] Speaker A: So in that sense, wasn't he an alcoholic as well?
[00:07:31] Speaker B: Yes. So I feel like the character part of dad did not. He should not have became it. And usually in courts we put a guardian, a guardian ad litem is appointed. And that happens in family for an adult yes. So if you think you are incapac, if there is an issue of possibly an incapacity, a guardian at litem tends to be appointed so that they can go and be like. And pretty much they're not on anybody's side. They're supposed to get down to the facts and see what is in the best interest of either the child or the incapacitated person. And so I'm guessing in California there was one, but I'm sure Britney's dad just sweet talked that person and put on a show because I think if they really looked into it, dad should have never been conservator because dad was abusive to her.
[00:08:24] Speaker A: Who would have brought this up? Like are you saying it should have been the guardian ad litem but he was able to sweet talk him and in a normal case if there was issues with the parents, is it the guardian litem's responsibility? Is it the judge's responsibility? I mean whose responsibility is it?
[00:08:40] Speaker B: So what happens usually at these type hearings you have testimony from the guardian ad litem and a lot of times the cases I have are non contested. They're simple cases like for instance, like when Luke turns 18, you may want to get guardianship over him and it's not contested, you're his mom and everything has, he wouldn't contest you being it. And the doctors would come in guardian and lite them. So a lot of times it's just a simple report saying I think this person is fit to be the guardian or the conservator. So I would imagine there was some testimony by that third person and it is in the judge's discretion how much credit they give to that. So usually what we have in these type cases, doctors are going to come in and talk about are they incapacitated. And so the doctor doesn't have anything usually to say about who should be the guardian, who should be the conservator. They're just there to say I think this person is incompetent. Usually that's the job of the guardian at litem to be able to make help the judge in seeing that. But one thing I know in Britney's case that is different than a lot of our cases here in South Carolina, she didn't get to pick her own attorney. So yeah, and that shocked me because if you don't get to pick your own attorney, who's to say that attorney is truly, I mean I know ethically they're supposed to be, but we all know in any field they're crooked attorneys just like anything else.
[00:10:06] Speaker A: So did her dad pick her a lawyer?
[00:10:08] Speaker B: I think the court gave her her lawyer. Just like you know how, I guess how public defenders are assigned. Yeah, there's people that will volunteer. So in South Carolina what happens is if I'm going to do a conservatorship or guardianship, I have to send notice to the alleged incapacitated individual and they have 10 days to choose their own attorney. If they don't, the court will appoint one for them and there is a list. But they have the opportunity to pick their own attorney first. And in watching all the documentaries about her, she going to pick her own attorney. So is that fair? I mean are they going to fight for your best interest? Also if you're, I don't mean this in any way but if you're a court appointed attorney for Britney Spears, are you really going to do the best thing? Are you going to enjoy the limelight with. I'm not saying anything about this attorney. I don't know them, never looked into them. But as a person like. So that was one thing that's really weird in California or her case is she didn't pick her own attorney. So was there anybody actually fighting for Britney in that case? I mean that's kind of what the sad part in all of it was. And so yes, it went in front of the judge. The judge weighed the evidence and I'm not saying the judge did anything wrong in this case because you know, the guardian had lied and the doctors and the attorneys could have put forth evidence that weighed and it's the judge's discretion. We weighed heavily. And maybe the other side attorney didn't look into Britney's dad's past and bring all those things up because did she need a conservatorship? Yes, but it should have been. And I know he was it with a bank, but he was really over the most part of it and the day to day activities.
[00:11:47] Speaker A: Was her mom involved at all in this process? Were they still married at the time, her mom and dad?
[00:11:53] Speaker B: Because I know they eventually got divorced, consented to all. I think the mom didn't put up a fight and consented to dad and.
[00:12:00] Speaker A: Then I don't know, maybe he was abusive towards her and that's why she did it.
Okay.
[00:12:07] Speaker B: Like if you read her memoir, like there was just abuse all the way around. But I don't know, it's just surprising to me that none of this stuff came out in the court case. I feel like if I had been Britney's attorney that would have been my strongest thing is Like I, okay, maybe she does deserve a conservatorship. But we wanted somebody that really has her best interest at heart, not somebody that's just going to exploit her.
[00:12:30] Speaker A: Right.
[00:12:31] Speaker B: So those are some weird things in her case. Also with her case, there are things like here in South Carolina we can do least restrictive means possible. So some people don't need every single right taken away from them. There are cases where, you know, like maybe, yeah, you can't handle your money but you can make your own decisions about your body. And that was one thing that was taken away from Britney. She didn't even make her own decisions about her body. She had to have an IUD put in.
That was, that makes me sick. Her choice, it was her body and you're putting.
[00:13:11] Speaker A: Are there different. So in California they could have restricted her financially into the conservatorship that way but still left her body up to her, but they chose not to. Is that pretty?
[00:13:22] Speaker B: So there's different things.
[00:13:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:23] Speaker B: So like we have like things like guardianships, which is like the health and well being of the person and conservatorships, which is just the money. So like the financial part of it, I definitely think she needed help on her finances for sure. But the guardianship, they pretty much took away all her bodily autonomy. She was not allowed to make her own decisions. Like her dad told her what to eat and like gave her limited amounts of food to keep her in shape. Like pretty much she had no rights to her own body. And most of the time what we've seen in South Carolina with these guardianship cases is yes, they, you know, have control. Like they can go talk to the doctor. And a lot of times maybe the person doesn't understand, okay, you know, I need to have surgery, but I'm scared. I don't understand it. So the guardian may make that decision? Yes, you need to get your gallbladder out or you're going to get sick and die kind of thing. So it's taking those. But we don't see where the guardian tends to tell them what they have to eat. Like and this whole you have to have an IUD as a perfectly functioning like adult in that situation, like she had no control.
[00:14:39] Speaker A: So are you saying that like in these cases where somebody has guardianship where they can make those choices over their health and body, they could make those decisions about like reproduction and stuff like that, but we just don't typically see it? Is that what you're saying? Like they could, but you just don't typically see it? It's very unusual. Gotcha.
[00:15:02] Speaker B: Unusual to go as far as telling her she had to have an iud.
Yeah, like that was. Well in a lot of times in guardianships, conservatorships, we see this in elderly people and we're not worried about reproduction at that point.
[00:15:19] Speaker A: Right.
[00:15:19] Speaker B: We are worried about STDs because I don't know if y'all know this, but the highest rate of STDs right now is in nursing homes and assisted livings. Really? Assisted livings have a really. Because they're not worried about getting pregnant, they don't think about protection.
[00:15:35] Speaker A: I don't even like to think about that at all. But that is interesting.
[00:15:40] Speaker B: So. But that is, there are a lot of times where courts maybe do a conservatorship because somebody's financially illiterate, but don't always have to do the guardianship or inside the guardianship take the least restrictive means possible. So yes, they can make big medical decisions for them but not have to deal with, you know, their day to day stuff. They can still go to the doctor if they have a cold and know if they need to get an antibiotic or not. Not take all those rights. So with Brittany, they pretty stripped everything away from her to like she was an invalid pretty much.
[00:16:11] Speaker A: So she kind of makes sense with her Instagram now and I just think she's just been stripped of so much. I mean it definitely makes sense as to why she pushes the envelope so much in social media because for so long she just didn't have any rights at all. It, it kind of puts it in person perspective a little bit for me when I see some of the things that she posts that I think are kind of out there and a little weird, maybe too provocative.
It makes sense at this point.
[00:16:43] Speaker B: Well, and I think her mindset is still like, I think, you know, Britney's a little older than us and I think at this point we're being mid-30s. We went through, you know, making bad decision. Not that I feel either one of us were the type people that made super bad decisions or anything, but we had our youth, we got to live our lives like we wanted in our, our, you know, teens and twenties. And now we're adults and we think better, like financially. I make a lot better decisions now than I would have made at 19. I go back and look at my social media post, you know, 15 years ago and I'm like, oh my gosh, I would get fired from jobs for this type stuff. Nothing was bad, but it was just.
[00:17:25] Speaker A: Yeah, I've deleted Stuff I've deleted stuff that came up and I'm like, oh, I'm sorry. So embarrassed. This was horrible.
[00:17:31] Speaker B: Yes. Like just mean. Not mean, but just things you don't want out there. And I think Britney is with this. She's still in that mindset because she hasn't been like a young adult in all reality. I think she is still in that like 16 to 24 year old mindset because realistically, until they revoke the conservatorship and guardianship, she had no control of herself her entire life. She went from being a minor to, to end this conservatorship. And so she's never had that phase of, I guess, rebel. I mean she couldn't even control her own social media. Like can you imagine like wanting to post a picture of your dog or something? And I go, no, you can't post that. Like, that's insane to me. So I do think, I think I'll give my. I think she needs a conservatorship still. I think she has a lot of issues. I think she deserves to have more bodily autonomy though. But I do think she needs help, but it needs to be limited help. It doesn't need to take away all of her rights, which is what they did. And I think that is why she's like she is today. I think she went through so much trauma as a child and the person that gave that trauma to her continued to do it as an adult and she legally couldn't escape it.
[00:18:41] Speaker A: And I think too, I know I didn't read the memoir, I will, but I haven't yet. But I think they forced her into like mental health treatment and force things on her. So I also think that's so problematic now because I can't think of a time in Britney Spears life where she probably didn't have trauma based on what you've said. I mean, with her dad, you know, being so abusive and them using her as a child, as a cash cow. And then she goes into this very public relationship with Justin Timberlake and we know now that she had an abortion.
And then after that she gets with Kevin Federline. It's a whirlwind romance, marriage, divorce, two kids. And then I think we all agree she had postpartum depression after her second child. So she's got two babies, her marriage is ending, she has postpartum depression and the media is, I mean it's still a problem today, but it was so much worse when we were growing up. I mean some, you've even pointed out some of those things, like in Friends, things that we wouldn't see in TV shows today, like, you know, Fat Monica, you know how much body shaming there was. You know, there's an episode where they're using the R word. And so, you know, there's so many things that have gotten better in the media. We still have a lot more to go, but it was just way worse. And then she gets put into this conservatorship where she loses all her rights, like you said, and her dad, who's abused her all her life, is continuing to abuse her. Like, when's the last time she wasn't going through a traumatic life event?
And now's the time to heal, but because she's been forced into treatments that she doesn't agree with, she doesn't trust probably anything to heal. It's. It's so sad.
[00:20:31] Speaker B: You know, her dad was picking the therapist she saw, so it wasn't like she had free. Like, I believe in mental health treatment, I believe in therapy, I think is great. But I think with the dad picking the therapist, that therapist, every therapist has different belief systems and you find the one that matches with what works with you, you know, and they have different treatment methods. So her therapist could have been some like, holier than thou, like, hellfire, like, damnation type therapist. Not one that really wanted to work to express what she. And different people have different therapy needs. But she didn't pick her therapist. Her dad sent her to someone. The person abusing her is sending her to therapy.
[00:21:10] Speaker A: Yeah, and she didn't trust him.
[00:21:13] Speaker B: And because he had a guardianship, there's no privacy. So he could have sat in her therapy sessions with her.
[00:21:18] Speaker A: I didn't think about that. So she's not going to open up about what he's doing to her to truly get help and heal. If he can get the doctor's notes right.
[00:21:28] Speaker B: And yeah, he could read the doctor's notes. He could sit in there with her, he could do anything. Because pretty much it's like being a minor where like, if you take Luke or Mac to the doctor right now, the doctor doesn't ask you to leave. You have access to their, like my chart, medical records. So no, she had no freedom to actually get the help she needed to heal because daddy was watching everything. And this is one time where I think the medical system, the court system, I think most of the time guardianships and conservatorships are fair and good, but I think the system completely failed her because, you know, and now she's in her 40s I think. And just her whole life is trauma and I don't know if she can ever recover from that.
[00:22:14] Speaker A: That makes me so sad.
So sad.
That's gonna be my question. If you thought that she'd ever be well, but you just kind of answered that.
[00:22:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know. I mean like a lot of times when we see like guardianships and conservatorships, a lot of the ones I do are for people that are differently abled pretty much from birth. So like I've done a lot of people that have like non verbal autism, I've done and like those while they're emotional to do. But you see the moms and dads or the moms or grandparents, whoever it is that's taking care of them, come in here and like bear their hearts out and cry and want to do what is best for their child and they just want to be able to go in that doctor's appointment because their child cannot comprehend you need to take this medicine kind of stuff.
And then I do have some with elderly people and those are sad too because you're taking away somebody's rights because they have dementia, they have Alzheimer's and they're sad. But it's life situations. I think Britney's is one of those abnormal ones where she just was stripped of her rights as a functioning human and you know, she's crazy and wants to spend all her money.
I mean, as long as she's mentally competent to do so, that's on her.
[00:23:33] Speaker A: That's her choice. Right, Right.
Well, I definitely learned a lot. I guess I need to go back and read her memoir. Sean, do not come after me when you hear this episode.
I'm gonna add it to my list of reading. I was reading Matthew Perry's, but yeah, thank you for that information. I was really excited about this, this episode and yeah, it just makes me really sad for her. I just don't know.
I'm hoping that like you said, where she's kind of trapped in that 18 to 22, 23 time frame with her mind right now as she distances herself from this conservatorship and gets years under and away from it, that she'll eventually feel like she can seek out treatment where she can truly divulge everything that's on her heart and all the trauma she's been through and work with somebody to truly heal and get better and, and move forward in life. Because I just, I want to see her happy. And if that's not performing ever again, I respect that. But I do I just, I just wish we can. I hope one day in our lifetime we will see a happy, mentally, well, beautiful Britney Spears.
[00:24:48] Speaker B: And I think the hard part I just kind of thought about this is like, you know, normally when you have trauma, who do you go to but your family? You know, you've had a bad day, who are you gonna call? Like, a lot of times we still call our moms, you know, like our, you know, people that have lot. And she doesn't have that. She doesn't have a mom, a dad, and a sister who truly love her and sad for everything.
[00:25:11] Speaker A: And, you know, bring up the sister real quick. I know we have to wrap this up, but, you know, Sean is very, so. Sean is my cousin. I've taught him. He's a big Britney Spears fan.
He really gets upset at Jam Lynn as well. Whereas myself, I have a little sister and we, we both have been through so many traumatizing things in our childhood. I never would have put that on her shoulders to help heal me or to have my back with her dad or our mom or anything like that, because she was my little sister. And so sometimes I think there's an unfairness with Jamie Lynn because, oh, you should have helped your sister. But she was a child going through this as well. And then she had the teen pregnancies. She had her own set of things that she was navigating in this life. I almost think it's unfair to put some of that responsibility on her little sister.
[00:26:05] Speaker B: I would agree with that.
[00:26:07] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:26:07] Speaker B: Was it at that point her little sister, but now I think little sister writing that little biography was that different to me because she's a grown woman.
[00:26:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:16] Speaker B: No, as a child, she was a lot younger than Britney Spears too. So, like, you know, she didn't know what was going on. And that was her mom and dad completely agree on that until she became an adult and trying to cash in on her now.
[00:26:29] Speaker A: Agreed. Agreed. 100.
Well, stay tuned. We have more cases. I think Michael Orr is another one that Lauren's going to discuss with us. We're going to talk about John Benett Ramsey and some other cases in pop culture these days. So if you have a case that's out there dealing with any kind of estate or criminal that you want us to talk about, definitely message us. Follow us on Instagram. Like Lauren said at the beginning, subscribe. Listen to our channel. And we appreciate everybody coming here today. So we'll see you at the next episode.
