Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: Hey, everybody, it's Lacey and it's Lauren. And we're here for another episode of the Llamas podcast.
[00:00:12] Speaker A: And I will say today I'm having some allergy issues, so if I go on mute or my video turns off, it's just because I'm sitting here hacking up a log.
But instead of starting with the question today, Lacey's gonna just tell us a little bit about what's been going on in her life. But we will be getting back into our book club today and kind of doing two more stories. So we're gonna get into it now.
[00:00:37] Speaker B: Yeah. So I told Lauren, I said so instead of a question, kind of just kind of vent, because this is the Law Mama's podcast. And Mama life is hard for me this week. So I've talked about Luke, my 7 year old with down syndrome. And yesterday, Lauren, I used to say, like, oh, it's so hard taking him to appointments when he doesn't understand, like, a blood draw. Wish I could talk to him, say it's going to hurt, but just for a little bit. And now he understands, and I don't think it's any easier. So like, we went to do his yearly labs. And so if you don't know, like, the labs are looking at a lot of stuff, it's mainly looking at any advanced notice of leukemia is the biggest thing that they're looking at. They're also checking because of his weight loss has been so much for celiac, which I'm not so worried about that, you know, like, I can deal with that. But so we went and did his labs and he had his yearly cardiology appointment. Because Luke was also born with a heart defect. He got it repaired at four months old. So he had heart surgery then. So we go and do the labs and he just, like, freaked out because he knew he remembered, you know, and so I had to hold him down. He's kicking and crying, and I felt so bad, and he hated the band aid. So then when we got to cardiology, where nothing hurts, like he just was over it. So he went dead weight in the hallway. I kept trying to pick him up, and he literally was sliding out of my arms, fighting me. Finally got him into the appointment room, and then he was fine with them checking his heart, like he knows what that is. And he was playing doctor while we were kind of waiting. But then we had to do the echo, which is just an ultrasound, so it doesn't hurt. He went dead weight in the hall again. He refused to go in. He's kicking and screaming. I had to, like, hold him down. And then I get to the room after, and I'm like, oh, my gosh. What if something's wrong with his heart? Like, what if something is wrong and he has to do the surgery again? But thankfully, everything was okay. But now I'm panicked about the labs, and we have dentist tomorrow, and he hates the dentist, so I'm gonna have to hold him down again. And he's got, like, two rows of bottom teeth because, like, his baby teeth haven't fallen out, but his adult teeth have come in. So he literally has two rows of teeth. So I'm also panicked about, like, are they gonna have to pull them? I don't know how he's gonna be with that. So I'm just really stressed, and I'm overwhelmed. And I told my work staff and I told my husband if I'm a little off, if I'm not my cheerful self. Like, I'm worried about these labs. I'm worried about the teeth, and I'm tired of having to hold my kid down and just him cry and scream. And I wish. I just wish you didn't have to go through so much at one point. One time, I guess. So. That's my law. Well, not my law. My mama. Vent of the day. And, Lauren, if you have any advice, I'm here. Or just a tissue.
[00:03:25] Speaker A: Probably just a tissue. It's hard. Taking kids to the doctor is hard. I know. Like, we've had a lot of sickness this past winter. I think everybody has.
And, like, the strep test, the COVID test, the flu test. Like, even just those little things that are uncomfortable for a second, like, I'm, like, grabbing my child's head and holding her arms so the nurse can shove in. Or we've had to do some blood tests with all the different. Ours is just basic illnesses that have happened, but it's just stressful being a mama, having to deal with stuff. Also, I noticed this. I'm wearing the same shirt, I think, as last week.
I promise we're filming this at a different time as Lacey's in different clothes. I just pretty much wear the same clothes every week because I hate doing laundry. I just wash it, rewear it. But I noticed that. And I was like, let me address it. But to all the other mamas out there, you're not alone. We're here. It's hard.
And it's okay to be. Have hard times, be upset, cry. But then you think about, like, I have these moments where I'm like that, and Then I get in the car and, like, it never seems to fail that it won't be like this for long. It's playing by Darius Rucker. And it gets me my feels, and I'm like, let me just embrace this moment before they leave me.
[00:04:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I told my law partner, I said, I'm sorry I checked out yesterday, but the appointments, everything took a lot longer than I anticipated, and I couldn't get to the phones. And she said, lacey, if I knew you had all that, I would have not allowed them to send you any phone calls. And I was like, I really appreciate that. And she's always just so understanding, especially with Luke, because she has a nephew with autism, so she just knows how many, like, extra appointments we have. And I just told her we have the dentist tomorrow, and the dentist is always horrible. And if I don't check back in for work, like, I'm sorry. It's just one of those weeks, and I feel guilty because I feel like I'm letting my staff down, but it's just. It'd be like that sometimes, I guess.
[00:05:34] Speaker A: I don't know what to do.
[00:05:35] Speaker B: I can only do so much, and I am just emotionally not with it right now.
[00:05:41] Speaker A: I will say my last week at work has been really stressful, and, like, I have been a little bit more on edge in general. I don't know, maybe there's something just in the environment, like doing this is. But I feel like that's one of the perks and drawbacks of being your own business owner, because it's like, okay, yes, I can take this day off, but then am I putting a burden on somebody else? And then I think his mama's. It falls on us.
[00:06:06] Speaker B: Right, Right. I agree. So switching gears. So that's our. Just skipping the question and just venting because we have a podcast. We do that. So, like Lauren said, you know, we. We're with you. And, you know, if you're not a mom, maybe this gives you some insight of some of the things going through our minds and on our plates, and I think it'll help some people empathize a little bit more with working moms and some of the struggles that we have. So switching gears.
[00:06:39] Speaker A: Yep, we're gonna dig into this, Our book again, framed by John Gresham. And this week, my chapter is called the Absence of Motive. And this story honestly broke my heart.
This, like, was one of those cases where there is not a thing. Think, like. So let me give you. Here, we'll give you the background on this one. There's A guy, his name is Joe Brian. He has a crush on this girl named Mickey Blue. Since elementary school, like, and then they end up falling in love. And they're in this small town in Texas. They're like, I don't know, elementary school sweethearts. I think they both, like, dated other people and different things during this, but ultimately they were always drawn back together. They both ended up being teachers, so, like, serving the community. Like, they didn't have children, and they just were like, kind of that couple have kids, right?
[00:07:39] Speaker B: Like, I think they. They wanted to, but then they couldn't. So that kind of like, you know, made me really sad, too. But they being teachers and having kids still in their lives, like, they. They worked through it.
[00:07:52] Speaker A: Yeah. And he ended up becoming a principal. And, like, yeah, I think their kids, honestly were their students, and they poured a lot of love into them. And it just seemed like to everybody, they were just a normal, happy. I mean, I'm sure they had their fights like all of us do, but overall, they were just normal, happy couple. Well, he had went to a conference, I think like a principal conference or something a few hours away, all in Texas. And his wife was always the type to get to school at a certain time. She was very routine, as we know you elementary school teachers have to be, because it's crazy.
So she. One day she. While he was at this conference, she didn't show up for school. And some people were kind of worried about her. And, like, one of her, like, colleagues was like, she hadn't gone to school yet. And this was a long time ago. This was in the 80s, so this was before, you know, we had cell phones and tracking and all that type stuff.
When they hadn't heard from her, they decided pretty much, I think, that one of the co workers went out there to check on her and found she had been murdered and brutally murdered. And this was all while her husband was at this conference. And it was 120 miles away was the conference. And pretty much in this case, there was blood splattered. It was across the ceiling and the floor, and there was.
Her body was in the bedroom and those type things. So they were, like, doing the crime scene investigation.
So between where he was and where she was murdered was two hours difference. So a round trip would have been at least four hours.
And people had seen Joe and talked to Joe at the conference at a certain time, and then that morning he was at the conference at a certain time. So, like, realistically, there was no way he could have made this drive, murdered her, and Dropped, drove back. Yet the police like hooked on to him that he was the murderer.
They, the police started pretty much putting words in people's mouths and spreading rumors. One of the rumors, yes, it was, it was Joe was gay and like he was out there cheating on her and he was gay and he resented her. Okay, well just divorce then. But nobody had ever heard this rumor. It was the complete police completely started this rumor. Also there was a gun involved, but I don't think the guns even they knew which gun had shot and they didn't even match, but they didn't care about that.
And one thing that was really interesting in all of this was the blood splatter.
So like in these cases they would have a blood spatter splatter. I can't talk, but you know what I'm saying? Expert come in and investigate and say, oh, they were shot from here because of these angles.
[00:11:05] Speaker B: Right.
[00:11:05] Speaker A: Well you think if it's a professional that they've done a lot of schooling, a lot of training after reading this book, Blood and arson, especially 60s, 70s and 80s. No. They go to course for one week, one week and suddenly they're an expert.
[00:11:24] Speaker B: That is terrifying.
[00:11:26] Speaker A: And you put these people on the stands and you qualify them as an expert. So like.
[00:11:31] Speaker B: And shame judges first. It's one thing in the state and the prosecutors and this will kind of tie in on mine too, but also shame on the judges. And I do, I sometimes feel like the judges are more lenient with states introducing experts and just like allowing it in and letting the jury decide. But a jury is going to weigh so heavily on somebody that the judge is saying is an expert. So.
[00:11:58] Speaker A: Right, because like obviously I know nothing about blood splatter. So if you tell me you are an expert, I'm going to trust it. So what, let's see, had been certified after taking a one week 40 hour crash course for which he paid $400 to a private company that specialized in training experts. So he just went and paid some money and became an expert.
So pretty much in this case we're seeing experts are not really experts. Which I will say I think in some ways that's gotten a little bit better today.
We have better science today in general.
[00:12:39] Speaker B: Too for what they have to the threshold they have to overcome.
[00:12:43] Speaker A: Yeah, so like to be an expert you actually like need to have levels of expertise more than I paid 50 bucks for a class kind of thing. And we also saw the police putting words in people's mouths. Like they would go around and say, well didn't you Hear Joe was gay. Didn't you hear Joe was sleeping with this guy and wanted to leave her? And it got everybody confused. And they would start a rumor. And we, okay, me and Lacey are from a small town. Small towns talk.
So if a police officer came to me and said, didn't you hear Bob was, you know, screwing around with Vanessa or something? You're gonna go up to your friend and be like, did you hear that Right? And pretty soon the whole town knows. So that's basically what they went to trial on. A blood spatter expert who didn't know what he was doing.
And gossip. And in this, we have proof that he could not based on when he talked. Physical evidence.
[00:13:40] Speaker B: There is concrete physical evidence. He couldn't have done it.
[00:13:44] Speaker A: Seen by people at this conference at this time and this time, and there is no way he could have made it. And one thing that reminds me of is I had this. I teach business law at his college here. And we had a case about. It was a case out of Florida where this guy was, like, put on the stand for murder. But his criminal defense attorney showed that there was no way he could have made it from the Atlanta airport, through Atlanta traffic and everything to get to Florida to get back to do this murder. And it doesn't matter how much evidence you put out there to show this, the jury in that case just disregarded it. And in this situation is kind of similar. It also makes me think of the movie and the book when the Crawdad Sings, because that whole spoiler alert if you haven't watched it, but pretty much she did murder the person and had done this really elaborate plan of riding this bus. And she did make it work in a time frame that she shouldn't have been able to. But that is a work of fiction. In real life, I don't think people are that smart, in all honesty. But the saddest thing to me about this case was he never actually got out of jail or pardoned, even though he never did this. When Covet hit.
See, it's been obviously years and years in jail. Covid hit. They're trying to get people out of the jail system because they have Covid. I mean, they're trying to keep people safer out because of pretty much good behavior. And Covid, but he's never found innocent, never pardoned, and the first thing he does is go put flowers on his wife's grave.
[00:15:24] Speaker B: I just got cold chills. What made me sad when you were talking about the rumors. I remember in that part of the story, like, he Went to church and there was a time where the pastor asked him not to come to church no more because the congregation didn't know what to believe. They had started turning on him. Like the community was so strong for him at the beginning. And then the more the police like inserted themselves into the investigation, they slowly, you know, turned against him.
[00:15:54] Speaker A: It was the community at first did rally around him and then it just became a total witch hunt where he was the bad guy and he was a monster. And just because of some gossip, the whole community turned. He couldn't stay. Like even during the course of the trial and everything, he had to leave his hometown where he was loved. He was a principal and he had never had anything, any. I don't think he'd even had a speed and ticket.
And all because a police officer started a rumor he was gay.
A jury convicted him.
[00:16:31] Speaker B: Yeah. No domestic violences between them or anything. Like just out of thin air.
It's like they just want to show sometimes. I just feel like the police sometimes rush to judgment and tunnel vision because the community wants an arrest. Right. I mean, that's scary. You have a murder, especially in a small town, everybody's going to be scared and that's going to put so much pressure on the police department. I understand that you're going to have that pressure, but that doesn't mean you rush to judgment because that's how these convictions happen. You have to take your time. Still, just because the community wants somebody arrested fast, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're always going to be able to do that. Did they ever. Because I guess he's still convicted. They never found out.
[00:17:21] Speaker A: What'd you say?
[00:17:22] Speaker B: Was she sexually assaulted?
[00:17:24] Speaker A: I can't remember about.
[00:17:26] Speaker B: I didn't know that part of it.
[00:17:28] Speaker A: But no, they never found the real killer. So the real murderer was still running around out there. So just because you get a conviction, if it's a wrong, awful conviction, there's no help to the public.
[00:17:39] Speaker B: Right.
You'll kind of see that how snitches giving them free passes is going to help someone kill again in the next story.
[00:17:53] Speaker A: You can go ahead and start. I think we've covered this one, so if you want to go ahead and tell them about the next one.
[00:17:59] Speaker B: So the one I brought was. Oh, the tangle webs we weave when first we practice to deceive. So, Carrie, Max Cook was wrongfully tried and convicted twice. He actually went to a trial three times. There was a mistrial once and he was convicted and sentenced to death two other times.
So Linda Jo Edwards is the victim in this case. She was brutally murdered. So Linda was having an affair with this guy named Jim Mayfield. Jim worked at the university that she worked at.
Jim had been married, and at one point, like, Linda even lived with his family. It was really weird.
He. She was much younger than he was, too. But she.
Oh, she. She attempted suicide because he broke off the affair at one point.
So it was just. It was a hot mess express.
Linda did move out. So at the time she was murdered, she had a roommate named Paula. So Paula is coming home.
She walks into her apartment, and she sees who she describes as Jim Mayfield. And she's like, what the heck, right? Like, why is she back with him? Because the attempted suicide, the last one, was in, like, the last month or two. So she goes onto a room and smokes a cigarette, listens to music or something like that, and it's like, God, you know, why is she doing this again? Here we go again. I told her she needed to break this off, you know, just like you would have done, you know, if. When you were my roommate, if I had been doing this.
So the next day, she goes into Linda's bedroom and finds Linda mutilated. I mean, I am. There is a page in the book. You can go and read all the things that happened to her. Her face was sliced. I mean, brutally, brutally murdered. And the way she was mutilated was definitely like, sexual aggression, anger.
So everybody had knew. Everybody knew about the affair. So, of course, Jim Mayfield was questioned by the police also. He was fired three days before the murder because of this affair. She was let go as well from the university because of all, like, the drama and stuff and the attempted suicide over the two of them. So the police talked to him, and he had said that, you know, they had not had sex in weeks, that this affair was over. She was upset that he went back to his wife and. But he didn't know anything about it. They had been together that day, and he had kind of like, outlined things that they had done together, him and Linda, but of course, denied that. The murder.
Paula described him and described tennis clothes and Jim played tennis, and she said it was white, silver hair that she saw in his frame and build and very tan, and that was him. So they, of course, looked at everything. They got a fingerprint on the outside of a patio door that didn't match Jim. And they never did test the DNA. There was DNA in her underwear, but they didn't test that until later. So there was also a jailhouse snitch. So, anyways, the police are trying to figure out who did this. Somehow they don't think Jim did it. And Jim did lawyer up. He said he would take a polygraph. He got a top defense lawyer, and which I say everybody should do. If you're investigated for a crime, you know, whether you did it or not, you need a lawyer.
And the defense lawyer was like, you can't talk to anybody in the family anymore. And I guess they also had an alibi. The wife said he was home all night that night. And so the wife, who knew he.
[00:22:02] Speaker A: Had affairs and kept taking him back.
[00:22:04] Speaker B: Yes, yes. And I think a daughter even said he had been there, too, but she had, like, threatened Linda and to kill her and had some mental health issues.
[00:22:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:16] Speaker B: So they are trying to find out, you know, who did this. So this another one of these experts. Who knows how many hours training he had, but he said this had to have been, like, a homosexual rage killing. So the police go around the apartment complex and they talk to this guy named Taylor, and he's like, oh, yeah, I was living with this guy named Carrie Max Cook. He was, like, hitchhiking. He passed through the area.
And so they honed in on him. His fingerprint did match the exterior patio door.
And so. And they also got a jailhouse niche. So the jailhouse niche was actually in jail for murder. They offered him a deal of, like, two years. And he said that Carrie admitted to the murder to him, and he testified, and that guy got out and ended up killing somebody else in another state. So where I was telling you, Lauren, a minute ago, like, this is what happens when you don't do your job as police officers and you offer these snitches these sweet deals. You offered a convicted. Well, you. He wouldn't convict at the time, a murderer, a deal. And he. And he later said he, like, he lied. He said, I did this just to get a deal. And look, he got out. And that person could still be alive if the police had just done their original job. So they cost a life in this investigation.
So, Kerry Max, like I said, he went to trial three times. So one of those trials, I can't remember if it was the first or the second or third. I think it was the first one. He got a mistrial. And a mistrial means that the jury cannot come to a unanimous verdict. So in criminal court, all 12 jurors have to agree that someone is guilty or not guilty to get a verdict. So in a mistrial, that means they were split somehow. The second time he was convicted, incented to death. He appealed. They said there was issues. He was convicted again, and they appealed. At some point during one of these trials, they did look at that. So they knew that there would. That she had had sex in their DNA. And so Mayfield had, like, changed the story and was like, well, yeah, we. But we didn't have sex. It was like three days before. And that was another thing that was weird. I mean, the. To believe the prosecutor story. You had to believe Linda had sex with Jim and wore the same underwear for two to three days without change, which is gross, which is disgusting. And somebody is not going to do.
I mean, I don't think any of.
[00:24:48] Speaker A: Us, unless we're stranded out in, like, the desert.
[00:24:52] Speaker B: I understand that, like, but this is a person that has an apartment, she has a job.
She's not going to work. She goes to work. She's not going to wear dirty. So to believe the same story, you had to have believed that she had sex with him and wore this underwear for two to three days, which is so disgusting. And that's what I don't get, how the jury believed that. But it was his. It was Jim Mayfield's DNA. It was not Carrie Max Cook. So, you know, that came out.
They eventually did talk to him, and he just changed his story later on.
There was also this book. It was called the Sexual Criminal. And it later came out that Jim Mayfield, who she was having an affair with, had checked this book out and ordered it through his job because they worked at a library.
He denied it in an interview later on. But there was. There's, like, little things like that that should have heightened investigators to hone in more on Mayfield. The wife always stood by his side. She always said that he home that entire night. She never changed her story. What ended up happening with Carrie is it was. And the judge just let in crap evidence, too. Like, there was this one guy that testified they watched this movie and it was sexual in nature and carrying all these.
You know what I'm talking about?
[00:26:20] Speaker A: This was, like, disgusting. The judge let this in, and it had nothing to do with the child.
[00:26:26] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. It was just basically trying to say he was gay. And so he's a can. He's a killer because he was gay. And. Yeah. So he made all these allegations of care, and he denied it later, you know, that this. Any of this happened.
But the last trial ended up in a plea because Carrie was terrified. Well, I think Carrie kind of wanted to go to trial. I think his attorneys were scared and probably convinced him to take the deal. The state Offered a deal of a reduced charge and it would be time served so Carrie would get out and not face the death penalty.
[00:27:04] Speaker A: And at one point, yeah, the attorneys pushed him. And I can't. I mean, I know we're never as attorneys supposed to tell our clients what to do, but you've seen your client get, you know, convicted multiple times and death penalties on the table.
[00:27:19] Speaker B: Like, he came in within like 11 days at one point of being executed. And so, yeah, like, I mean, I don't know what I would do. I mean, it's ultimately the client's decision.
And I agree with that. But just, you know, all the evidence that the judges have let in, that was so, I mean, just definitely when you read this book, if you haven't read it yet and you're listening, like, you're just going to be mind blown at some of the things these judges let in. That was not relevant at all. Oh, and the. The fingerprints, the first trial and probably the second two, they tried to say the fingerprints were definitely left at like 7 or 8pm like, they tried to put a time. So that's what. One. You can't do that. So that's what one. I'm on one appeal is. Because say it was like. Or the appellate court was like, you can't do. Like, that's impossible. You can't put a time frame on when fingerprints were left. So that's what helped him win, get another trial in one of the instances.
But in.
He ended up pleading to the reduced charge and getting time served. So he got out. He was later exonerated. They later did declare him innocent. So it worked out overall. And he's actually written his own book. I can't remember what it's called, but if y'all look up Carrie Max Cook, I'm sure you'll find it. I'm gonna add it to my reading list because it. This is one of the longer stories in the book. And so I just definitely feel like there's probably a lot more out there. And I'm curious to see just kind of some more because the book really does focus on, like, what caused this conviction. Right. What did the police do wrong, the prosecutor do wrong, the judge do wrong. And, you know, that's the purpose of this book. But I would imagine that Carrie probably has more emotions in there, like what he endured and felt during those moments. And I just want more insight into that. So I think I'm gonna check out his actual book.
But. But yeah, so he actually ended up, you know, pleading.
Because of him, he was just done so wrong. I mean, it's out of nowhere. And I firmly believe that Jim Mayfield did this. They had this guy at the beginning, the DNA match the underwear.
[00:29:30] Speaker A: And then why would you not go after the lover? Like in every case, like scored lovers.
[00:29:37] Speaker B: Like, but also the evidence backs it up. You have, Paula, who described him, you have that he was fired three days beforehand. You. If you had done your job, you would have learned about this book being ordered by him, the sexual deviant or whatever it was. And I think it had like mutilations and then something about the mutila, like that there was ties to Mayfield with that too. I can't remember. So you have that and then you have the DNA.
That is a strong case.
That is a strong case. I mean, you have it's. And it's. I mean, you have actual physical, direct evidence of him being there.
So it just doesn't make any sense.
[00:30:19] Speaker A: I think both of these cases, I think something that I didn't see the connection to till we both had talked about them was the fact that in both cases, a person being gay was completely used against them. Like, even on the first case, he was not gay. They pushed the oh, he's gay narrative. And in this case, because the man's gay, he has all this pent up rage that he did this. I mean, obviously the first case was Texas in the 80s, so it was a different world then. But I think in both cases we see hate towards gay people just because no other reason.
[00:30:55] Speaker B: This is Texas in the 70s, late 70s, and all this was going on in the 80s, the trials. So same state, same time frame. And I want to say that was around the time where HIV was really high numbers in the gay community.
Yeah, I think they use that to inflame jurors and people to get convictions for sure.
How does. I didn't even think of that.
[00:31:26] Speaker A: Well, when you start talking about, like, I remember him being gay and being in the nightclubs and like how that was used against him and how in this case either.
Yeah, like the whole rumor that this person was gay. And to all our LGBTQ friends, we support you and we know this stuff can still happen today, but we're hoping it gets better and better for you.
[00:31:48] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think by talking about it and highlighting these issues, we hopefully can bring awareness to avoid it. But yeah, I mean, I will say I would hope. I mean, I think in the south you worry about it more, but I don't think it would have as be as heightened like if somebody said somebody was gay. You wouldn't just like jurors wouldn't be as hot. But yeah, in this time it was. And it shouldn't have been.
It shouldn't have been. It was disgusting then, just as it's disgusting now. But I definitely. You think the police use that as way to get convictions. And now it makes me wonder, Lauren, like, how often they used it, especially.
[00:32:31] Speaker A: During that time period. Because I do feel in today's time period, we are a lot more accepting overall as a society. But especially then again, like, yeah, I also, like, it's just interesting how many times I would like to see like this niches stuff. Like, how often is that use. Because going in the jailhouse and getting a confession from some other. That's not. I did watch this one video from this other criminal defense attorney on her Instagram, and one of her biggest points, which I'm sure you would say, too, is don't talk to people in the jail when it sucks. You're sitting in jail, you want to talk to somebody, but the second you open your mouth, you never know if that's an informant.
[00:33:13] Speaker B: Yep.
So you're gonna see some of these themes in the case that I'm gonna talk about. I think we are doing one more week of the book club to highlight two more stories, highlight six of the 10.
But to wrap up, I just kind of want to pose a question to our listeners. In Kerry Cook's case, he eventually pled. Would you have pled to guarantee you're not going back to prison and getting out, or would you have risked a fourth trial? So let us know your thoughts, comment and or send us a message. Maybe we'll get Wendy, our producer, to put up a poll. But I'm curious to see what y'all would have done if you were in Carrie's shoes. But I think that kind of wraps up these stories with definitely a highlight moment at the end from Lauren.
[00:34:02] Speaker A: And we will be back with more next week. But follow us, like, send us emails, dms, let us know what you think. And we'll see you next week.
[00:34:10] Speaker B: See you next week. Bye.
