Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:07] Speaker B: And I'm Lauren and welcome to another
[00:00:09] Speaker A: episode of the Llamas podcast.
[00:00:11] Speaker B: And today we're going to talk about one of Netflix's new documentaries, which is something we've talked about before, is dealing with the Church of Latter Day Saints and their new false prophet and kind of that documentary. But first.
So I guess, like, I have a kind of random question for Lacey and I don't know how much she's gonna know about it, but I've been watching another documentary about like crimes overseas and stuff. So if somebody comes here that has committed a crime somewhere else, what's our extradition process like? Do you have any idea how that works?
[00:00:49] Speaker A: I don't.
So I know how our extradition process works when it is instead state, but I don't know with other countries, I just haven't had that happen.
But side note, if you're watching this, my kid is sick, so that's why I am in pajamas with a wet head because I showered late.
But so for instate that process, I, I have been exposed to that because when I'm in Boncourt, we, we have one, I would say a couple a month. Honestly, we're another state extradites them. So what happens is if there is a warrant from another state, whether it's a bench warrant for missing court or you know, a sealed sentence because you were convicted in your absence or a pending charge and they pick you up, you go to bond court and you have two options. One, you can fight the extradition, or two, you can waive extradition. So if you fight extradition, what that means is the case goes to the governor and they can decide whether or not they are going to allow this other state to come and get you.
They can choose to give you a bond. They could choose not to. But it is a lengthy process.
It's, it, I think it's a few months is from my understanding.
[00:02:04] Speaker B: Now, what if you got two crimes, who takes priority? Like if you committed murder in two states, like, or even something simple like burglary, that nobody got hurt, how do you prioritize?
[00:02:18] Speaker A: I'm dealing with that right now. And so to finish that real quick though, the other option is waiving extradition and that's just kind of faster. So they have about 30 days to cut the other state to come pick you up or South Carolina will release you.
Typically they do come get whoever it is and so they come and pick them up within that amount of days and then you're transported to that state. I could tell you from a previous client it can take months, like, like weeks to get there. I mean, this prior client had visited so many jails along the eastern coast because when that state comes and gets you, they will go along and pick up everybody else they need to pick up. So it's, it's not just like a one way ticket like Leanne Rhymes. I mean you get a full jail tour because they will go. They would, it was, wasn't even in the whole east coast. I think they might have went out to Texas. Like they will go and trickle and pick up all these people before going back to that state.
So I bring that up to say if you've got pending charges or warrant somewhere else in another state, you might want to get on, get an attorney and handle it because you could end up in jail for months with an extradition process.
So to answer your question, Lauren, from my experience, whatever state has them, that is going to be handled first.
So somebody is charged in South Carolina and has a hold, let's say in New Jersey.
So they're going to wait until South Carolina is done. So for example, I saw a plea about a month or two ago and I think his pending charges were in Georgia, I want to say, and this was not my case. But he pled to whatever was here and the prosecutor recommended time served. He'd already served a good bit of time here and they just wanted him to be able to move on, go to Georgia, deal with that and then he'd be done. So he pled to time served and then now Georgia will, I mean, like I said, this is a while back, so I'm sure they've already picked him up and then he went to Georgia to deal with that and whatever's going on in the other state, that depends on if they get out. Like if it's a pending charge that is unserved warrants, they could go to that state and get a bond and then get out. If it's a hold for failure to appear, that probably stuck a little bit longer until that state, you know, moves that case. But yeah, wherever you are. So I have clients in other states with pending charges here and I basically my case is just kind of on hold until that other state deals with it and then South Carolina will bring them back on their bench warrants.
[00:04:43] Speaker B: Okay. I just, so I'm guessing there's probably similar procedures for foreign countries depending on what country is. If we get along with that country,
[00:04:53] Speaker A: like certain countries we will not extradite to.
[00:04:57] Speaker B: Right. And then I know like maybe if you got in trouble, but you're here seeking asylum, you know, I'm sure different levels, but it's interesting to know, you know, how it works. So now on to the false prophet.
[00:05:11] Speaker A: I love learn. Like I don't love the flds, but I was even telling my best friend Krista on Monday when I was talking about it, like I'm just so fat. Or Tuesday. I'm so fascinated with that cult. Like it is just so interesting to me, the different things and layers, the wardrobe, the hair. And so I'm just. If there is a documentary and it's flds, please send it to me. I will watch it and I'll re watch it because I have problems.
[00:05:41] Speaker B: And it's interesting like how.
I guess like the different levels of it because you've got like your mom talk Mormons who are way more mainstream but still have some of the like,
[00:05:55] Speaker A: yeah, they're not flds, but they all
[00:05:57] Speaker B: came from the same guy.
[00:05:59] Speaker A: Like, yes, originally you have.
[00:06:02] Speaker B: What was it, what's his name?
[00:06:04] Speaker A: Joseph Smith. Yeah.
[00:06:05] Speaker B: And like that's where it all originated from. You just have your different sex kind of like how there's different sex of Baptist method, you know, like that type stuff. But it's kind of interesting how each of them have went their own ways. And like mom talk, you have your mainstream Mormons.
[00:06:21] Speaker A: Right.
[00:06:21] Speaker B: But they still all have some very fundamental things the same. And all of them like no. Like no coffee in all of them.
[00:06:31] Speaker A: Right. But then you have such significant differences. Like, you know when we see all secret lives of Mormon wives, it is a monogamous marriage. And that's why the FLDS branched off is because the mainstream Mormon church condemned polygamy and they still believe monogamous and
[00:06:49] Speaker B: Mormon wives because isn't that the whole thing? Taylor was a swinger, she was a soft swinger.
[00:06:55] Speaker A: But that's not.
But it's not promoted within the church like lds that cult polygamy is promoted. You get to the highest level of heaven. The more wives you have is their beliefs. And any. But even that's different from sister wives.
[00:07:13] Speaker B: When we watch sister wives ask what is this? What do they say they're like part of?
[00:07:19] Speaker A: So they.
I can't remember what their church is called, but whatever their sect of Mormon is, they do believe in polygamy, but they do not do arranged marriages. So the flds, which is the documentary we're going to get to, you don't know who you're going to marry until the prophet gets the vision. So their belief is that Warren Jeffs is the prophet before Then it was ruling Jeffs, which was Warren's father. And so when the prophet got a vision, they would come to you and say, okay, this is who God wants you to marry. So it, you know, so they, they tell you what to do more. So whereas sister Wives, you have choice in it. And you kind of see that when you watch Sister Wives is.
Yeah, him and Mary liked each other at the time, got married, then they met Janelle. Janelle wanted to join the church and she just, you know, loved Cody. And so that there was. There were choices to make that happen. And, you know, even, you know, we don't like Cody here on this podcast. But Cody has said that he did look at other women before Robin, but they weren't good fits for the family. So, like, you know, there's decision making abilities within your polygamous family. And, and that is absolutely vastly different from the FLDS cult.
[00:08:42] Speaker B: Cody is a terrible, like, husband, and it seems he wasn't a good dad. But it wasn't rape. It was no underage people. They were all adults. They all consented. And all the wives knew what they were getting into with the other wives. There were not children involved. It was fully consenting adults and sister wives. He just became a bad person. And some of it may have just been fame too.
[00:09:07] Speaker A: Like, Right. We don't know.
But he's. I do think he's vastly different in the earlier seasons than the later seasons. So.
But you kind of even watch the story unfold with Robin. And yes, it's different because there's other wives. But as far as, like, them dating, get to knowing each other, you know, falling in love and, you know, welcoming them in their family, like, you know, I think of meshing a blended family almost like that's kind of. It's more alike monogamy then the flds, right. Is so vastly different just because of the control. There's so much more control in the FLDS now. I do believe that the sect that Sister Wives comes from is still very conservative in clothing. So flds, they wear the long dresses. They have undergarments as well, which I think too hear about the undergarments. Yeah.
And you do hear about it. Sister Wives. Christine even writes about it in her book when she's like, I'm done wearing these, I'm not wearing them anymore.
So you do hear about undergarments. I think in throughout. But I think on Mormon Wives, they wear whatever they want, very modern fashion. Sister Wives, you kind of see them transition in the beginning. They're very conservative. If they Wear a short sleeve shirt. They've got a long sleeve shirt underneath, very covered, you know, I would say neck to ankles for the most part.
But it was modern ish clothing and I think they kind of moved further from that throughout the seasons.
[00:10:43] Speaker B: I think we also need to take into account with sister wives, we have middle aged women who at the point we're at now, some of it is probably not. What they're wearing is not Mormon or because of their church.
They still dress pretty conservatively. But like most of us that are getting older, we're not showing it all off anyway. So like while they still may be in pants, it's probably because they don't want their legs to show because they're like the rest of us.
[00:11:13] Speaker A: So that's why you see me in pants most of the time or longer shorts. My thighs, they big, they rub.
[00:11:19] Speaker B: And then like on mom talk, they're like 21 years old. So they're just in a different like phase of life. So I think some of that is the distinction. But also mom talk they do. They're all very different inside of mom Talk. Like obviously Taylor does not follow any of the guidelines.
[00:11:35] Speaker A: No.
[00:11:36] Speaker B: Because they're not.
[00:11:37] Speaker A: Macy.
[00:11:38] Speaker B: Right.
[00:11:39] Speaker A: I think is probably the one that's the strongest in her faith.
But she'll wear strapless dresses and trendy clothes.
But like we said with the flds, it's just so different because they even have to wear their hair, certain styles pulled back. And that's Warren Jeffs that wasn't ruling. So Roland did not have where they had to have their hair a certain way. That was Warren Jeffs. Now they did always wear the long dresses.
[00:12:09] Speaker B: You know, Amish is like dressing because they're in the solid colors.
The old school like stuff like kind of how the Amish, they don't put like the little things in their hair, but they do. A lot of them are their hair braids are pulled back in a bun. It's not free flowing type hair.
[00:12:32] Speaker A: Yeah. And it has to have this like bang.
[00:12:34] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:12:35] Speaker A: And then sweep back. But that was. Warren came out with that. And then also there are certain, like they used to wear pattern tresses that then Warren banned that and then they had red. Warren banned that. So there's also a lot of changes within the FLDS just from one prophet to the next.
And then we see in the new documentary where somebody claims to be the new prophet because Warren's in prison. And so you see even, you know, people even separate from the FLDS with a new prophet. And you have this break again within the church, because now you have the FLDS who believes Warren is the prophet, and then a small section who believes Samuel Bateman is the prophet. And that's what the new documentary is
[00:13:19] Speaker B: on Less Samuel Bateman. From the way they describe him in the documentary, he was. Nobody liked him. He wasn't like a big time, big hot shot. So I'm really unsure. I feel like that was something that I didn't get in the documentary. How did he truly convince these people he was the prophet? Like, I felt like that, and I was like. The documentary was done by an outside woman. She was part of the Mormon Church at one point in time, and she had broke off from it. She moved back here. It's a beautiful place to live, though. Like, there's mountains, it's country. Like, it was nice. She moved back and kind of integrated in to try to help these women is. Was her goal. So it's told from that standpoint. So she may not have known. So that may be why we didn't get it. But from the outside community, he was this, like, guy nobody liked, but somehow he became empowered, which I guess is like, you saw with Warren Jeff's. His family, like, it was the only family. Like, we don't know how this guy made it to such power.
[00:14:24] Speaker A: I have theories. So, like, yes, Warren was the son of ruling, so that's. I think it was a almost natural transition. He was one of his favorite children. He studied under ruling.
But Samuel Bateman did just kind of come out of nowhere.
And so my. My theory, when Warren Jeffs was convicted and went to prison, he ordered that there can be no relations between married couples. So there were no more babies, there was no more.
There's no more sex.
And so he banned all those things, whereas Samuel Bateman was rolling in with babies and he was making babies with people. So I almost think some of the men went with him because, well, we like his rules better than Warren's. We don't. Like.
[00:15:15] Speaker B: I feel like Warren's role was just, I'm sitting in jail, so y' all got to be miserable too, in your marriage, this kind of thing.
[00:15:22] Speaker A: Yeah. And see, but. But see, Warren, everybody thought that he was a prophet. And there's still so many people within the flds. And it's not just in. I think it's Short Creek. Is that what it's called?
[00:15:34] Speaker B: I don't remember the name.
[00:15:36] Speaker A: In Utah. So they have a. A sect there, but they also have the sect in Texas where he built the. The temple. But see, Samuel Bateman, his following was not as big, not as many people went with him. From the documentary, it just appears that like three men that were in the FLDS started following him and believe he is the prophet. But I'm with you. What doesn't make sense to me is so when you hear Warren Jeff speak, he is a terrible person. He belongs in prison the rest of his life.
He should be miserable the rest of his life. But when you would listen to audios and him speak, it was very gentle and kind and, you know, warm. Not the things he said, but the way he presented himself. You could understand why people would think he's the prophet. Ruling was the same way.
David Koresh, when he spoke, it was very attention grabbing. It could get your attention. And he just commanded authority. And Jonestown, the. The cult leader there, I think it was Jim Jones. He very similar to David Koresh. Samuel Bateman is not that way at all. Samuel Bateman comes across as a buffoon. Like, he speaks. Like when he would speak about stuff, I'm like, this sounds so stupid. Like, it sounds clumsy too.
[00:16:57] Speaker B: Like just walking. He like would trip and fall.
[00:17:00] Speaker A: Like, he didn't command authority. He was very odd. I thought when he spoke, it didn't even make sense half the time. Like when the others spoke, like, I could see how people could be captured by it. Right. But when Samuel Bateman spoke, it's like, this doesn't even make sense. Like, this sounds like something you just pulled out your ass. Sorry, but it. So I'm with you. I don't understand how anybody thought he was the prophet. My only, my only theory is these three men that followed him and some of these women, these women wanted babies and these men wanted to keep having relations. And so if he's gonna have different rules than Warren, let's just slide with him.
[00:17:38] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I think that probably played a big part of it because you're right, A lot of the women were grown up. Like we're taught to be. Like, you got to make babies, you got to make babies. And then they're getting of that age and they're not having babies because he's sitting in jail and he's never going to get out. So that was to them, they're never going to have babies.
[00:17:56] Speaker A: Yeah. But yeah, he was odd. I commend the woman with her documentary. And you know what the mission she started out with, you know, to help them. And she did. She started like a little store that I think is still running. And you know, when she went there, she said, I'm not here to criticize their profit. Like I'm not going to do that because if I do that they're not going to allow me to help them. And I just.
And she made it like when she was talking about them being evicted and all these other things. They get no empathy because they're associated with Warren Jeffs. And I never even thought about that. Like when I watched Keep Sweet, Pray and Obey and watch, you know, pretty much the down. What you thought would be the downfall of Warren Jeffs, it hasn't been completely. But you know, with his downfall, at least to prison for the rest of his life, you don't think about, I guess like what's going to trickle down and the damage to others with losing their homes and stuff. And I bet they don't get the same empathy because of their religious beliefs. And I don't think that's right. I mean for, you know, for some they are so disconnected from the real world. You know those women when they say, oh he would never rape a 12 year old, they didn't hear the audios. If they heard the audios they would probably think they were tampered with by the government because they've been taught their entire lives not to trust the government and people outside their religion. So they truly, truly believe these things and it's probably really hard to get them to disconnect. But the least we can do as humans and like she did in the documentary is just give love and compassion to these people that are going through a hard time because they've lost, you know, what their normal is, their normal day to day activities and homes, homes that their grandfathers, great grandfathers built for their families. There's no babies and they said they are so used to babies. So you know, I think we, that's
[00:19:49] Speaker B: something take away from the documentary, the women were brainwashed. Like we can act like we as women would do different things but you have nothing like they're maybe they weren't all abused or those type things, but you're a battered woman, like what are you going to do? You can't just escape and get in a car, drive away and start a new life. And I think that's something people don't realize as much. Like yeah, we talk about women who are abused, go back to their abusers and that type stuff. But these women were equally abused. They were brainwashed and they thought they were going to go to hell. I mean if they did stuff like it's not even about here in this world, it's about God's going to send me to hell and I'm going to be miserable, and I have to do this so I can go to heaven.
[00:20:35] Speaker A: And if you leave, you're called an apostate. So it's not just leaving. So just like, if that was my religion, if this was my religion with my entire family, if I decide to leave, that means I would never get to see my sister or my nieces ever again.
My husband could fight for custody of my kids. I think usually they kind of let the kids go because they don't want them prodding around in the court system.
But it's possible. I would never see my grandmother again. I would never see my mom again. Like, if. If this was my family's religion and I chose to leave, I'm losing everything and having to start over completely with nothing. No money, no home, no education, no job experience, nothing to put on a resume. I mean, that's hard to do. I mean, emotionally. I mean, physically, everything.
Yeah.
[00:21:23] Speaker B: And it's not like the Amish who give you an option. I mean, you get time to go out the real world and decide for yourself. No, this is. If you leave us, you're straight to hell.
[00:21:35] Speaker A: And no cell phones, no Internet access.
And see, with ruling, you got to do a little bit more. But then Warren came along and he pretty much shut down education and schools and they took away games. They used to be able to play games and stuff. They took that away. So, like, it's just. It's gotten more restricted under Warren Jess than it was for Roland. And.
But again, I just don't understand. And Samuel Bateman didn't have that many restrictions. I mean, really, he just collected wives and brainwashed them, you know, and May. But like, he.
I don't think he. I mean, he may had him wear the dresses because I think he had to keep up with that. But they weren't allowed jewelry. He bought all his wife's diamonds. They had diamond rings. So that was something different that he did.
So, yeah, so I think he just somehow was able to get people who were just desperate for a little bit of change, but not enough change to completely leave the religion, I think, would you say?
[00:22:39] Speaker B: I feel like that's probably it. Like, they came along and, like, the thing is, he got the three men to come along. Well, when the men come along, their wives are forced to come along. And that's one of the big things that you see in the documentary. One wife is like, this is not right.
This is not how we should be. And that's kind of where this. We're probably gonna have to turn this into two parter because it is going long. But that's like where the real documentary, like the drama of it starts is these three men come in and the three men have money, like they're going and getting loans. They're building these big. They have like two or three big houses where all the women are living and that type stuff. But the wives are forced to come along and the kids are forced to come along. So. So you go, especially in these families, like with the, the church, if there's a man, there's three men, there's at least probably six to 10 women coming and then all the children they have coming. So it can go from nobody to a bunch of people really quick in that situation.
Yeah, he did get three very powerful men in that area to come along and pretty much they. Honestly, I don't know. It's hard for me in some of these situations on how I feel about the man because I feel like the women are definitely a lot of times brainwashed and they have no rights. But in the same way, if you're a man, you grew up in this. Your fathers and your mother taught you this. Like, I don't know, I feel like this is where like there are those specialized like psychiatrists and people who study cults because it's not as straightforward as I know this is wrong. I'm gonna leave like cult psychology is a real thing where these men probably felt, because this was so instilled in them that this is what they were supposed to do. Now there are some places I really draw the line that you cannot think that God told this man to have sex with your 12 year old daughter. Like no,
[00:24:35] Speaker A: with Warren. And then Samuel Bateman did, did get there.
So do you want to keep going or wrap up here and then we'll dive into more details next week?
[00:24:48] Speaker B: Next week let's dive into deeper details like how the criminal charges came about. So pretty much at this point in the documentary, we've met him. Like the first episode is really just you getting to know who Samuel Bateman is, which is what I think we've done here. And then we get into when one woman comes forward and is so brave and like does this for her family and how the criminal proceedings go. So I think maybe next week we talk about the whole process of the criminal justice side of things and how this worked.
[00:25:19] Speaker A: And I think it's important that we've started, you know, episode one with also because Sister Wives has been so big and now Mormon wives is so big, seeing how all of them are connected, but also vastly different. So I think it's good that we started there, too, leading into the documentary. So if you have questions or comments on our kind of deep dive into this religion and how it's branched out, which leads us to this new documentary, let us know. And we can see you next week for part two, where we dive deeper into what actually happened with Bateman.
[00:25:51] Speaker B: See you next week.
