Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
Hey, everybody, it's Lacey, and I'm Lauren, and she's back this week. And welcome to another episode of the Llamas podcast.
[00:00:13] Speaker B: Yes, and if my screen goes black, it's because I'm blowing my nose, because I've been hit with terrible allergies, which is why I look like Rudolph. And so, just an FYI, yes, I know my nose is gross. So we're just gonna live life and deal with it. But today we're going to start. We're going to today just kind of give you, like, a pop culture update on what's been happening in the news with legal proceedings and some stuff going on. But first, the question is going to be to Lacey, and I'll chime in with my answer, too. But so in a case you already representing, client A, client B comes in and they're wanting to hire you, and you realize there is a conflict. What do you do at this point? How do you handle conflicts and representation?
[00:01:03] Speaker A: Yeah, so if I have a client, another client comes along and a conflict arises. Let's say, for example, that the first client that hired me is a witness in the second client's case. So the second client's telling me, hey, this is what happened, and led to my charge and mentioned my first client's name.
You know, let's say what, you know how to handle that? Well, I'm not allowed to disclose who my clients are first off. So if that conflict arises, the only thing I can tell my clients is that I have a conflict of interest in this case. And at this point, I'm ethically required to come off.
And if the conflict arises, like after I've been hired by both, I don't know if I can keep money. But I will say, in the cases that I've had happen, I always just refund all of it. I don't know how that works with our rules. If you know, I'd be more than happy to take it, but I just think it's the right thing to do if I'm completely conflicted out of a case, no matter how much work I put into it, once that conflict rises, I feel uncomfortable keeping any of the money. And I would just rather give that money back to the family so that that way they can hire somebody. But I can't disclose what the conflict is, what client it involves. I can't give any specifics. I can only say I'm so sorry. Unfortunately, a conflict arose in reviewing the discovery or in talking to the client or whatever. And at this point, I have to Step away and no longer represent them. And whatever questions they ask, I can just say, again, I can't give any information, but like I said, I do as a policy.
I think my law partner does the same thing. In those situations. We just choose to give a full refund even if we put work into the case, because it just feels like the right thing to do. Maybe that's what we're required to do, but that is what we do.
[00:03:03] Speaker B: So I will say it's a little different for us in the Civil War. So a lot of times we may have conflicts come up during the case of actual. So a lot of times for me especially, like I may start out representing like a husband and wife together, maybe in a real estate issue, and then husband and wife end up divorcing during the case of our representation. So then the issue is, can the clients come and work together or do I have to refer them both out? Because at that point, right, I wouldn't keep one and not the other. And at that point we had spent a lot of money in the case, so we would keep the funds we'd earned at that point because another lawyer in the civil world, like, wouldn't have to start over. We would pass our file over and there wouldn't be a starting over. Like, the work we did would still be there. And then there's times, like I've had to say so, like, for instance, I've done your estate planning, you call me and say we're getting divorced. At that point, I would say, you know, send an email to both of you. Are you comfortable with me now representing you both individually to do this? Or most of the time I'm going to say I think it's best for you both to go get your own independent attorneys. And that's kind of the same thing. Like when I have to know who my client is a lot. So is it the business? Is it the member of the business kind of thing?
When people start to argue who was my client from the get go, which I think is a lot different in the criminal world. You clearly know who your client is. But like, if I'm representing a business, was I representing the business as a whole or was I representing John, a member of said business? So I think for in this civil world, it's really important from the get go to talk to your attorney to understand who the representation is. And in my retainer agreements, I do have language about conflicts and all that stuff. And especially like if I'm going through litigation and I filed documents for you, a judge Actually has to consent to me coming off the case. So it can be kind of complicated when conflicts arise. But, yeah, it's definitely there.
But kind of moving into our topic today, we're just gonna give some updates on things we've talked about in the past. And I think the biggest one to start off with is the Menendez brothers.
[00:05:26] Speaker A: Okay, I want to talk about Kanye.
Well, shocking. I want to talk about Kanye. But we'll start with Menendez brothers.
[00:05:34] Speaker B: So, like there, when we talked about them before, whether we thought their sentence was accurate or not, we both had, you know, different opinions on that. But at this point, a judge has allowed for them to have a resentencing hearing. So this isn't the trial phase. They are guilty.
They kill their parents. But the issue is they're going to have a new sentencing phase where there's going to have those mitigating circumstances of possibly the abuse coming in there. And so with that side of things, we could actually see if the judge believes, yeah, they were abused and this is why they did this. And they have served, what, 30 years in jail at this point?
[00:06:16] Speaker A: So. Yeah. Yeah.
Sorry to interrupt you, but what's crazy is a few days before this, I don't know if it was Sean pay. I want to say it was Sean. Something came up, and they asked me about the Menendez brothers, but, you know, it came out like that. The one family member didn't want them to resent it, and it just kind of fell off. We didn't hear anything else. I said, honestly, I think that was it. I think that was their last maybe chance to get this done. And since it didn't happen, I don't think it's happened. I think it's done. And then a couple days later, it comes out, and I'm glad I'm wrong, because in the episode, if y'all go back and listen, I do think they should be re sentenced, but it was just funny that it came up a couple days before, and I just felt like it was done. The other thing is, of course, I watched the Kardashians. If y'all. If I hadn't said that, I'm obsessed. But it was Kim's birthday episode that just came out, and she actually said what her wish was, and she said for the Menendez brothers to be released. So kind of crazy that, you know, all within one week that episode came out, and that was her wish. And. And, you know, somebody asked me my opinion and that they are, you know, actually coming out and going to get a possibility, you know, less time.
[00:07:29] Speaker B: And we'll just have to see. I don't know if they've actually set a date or anything for this, but it has been approved and I think we'll see what happens with that. I do think there's a possibility they could come out of jail for time served at this point. Yeah.
[00:07:46] Speaker A: And speaking of Kim.
[00:07:47] Speaker B: Well, I was gonna. With that we talked about. I think Mr. Kardashian played tennis with the Menendez brothers. So there is a.
[00:07:56] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:07:56] Speaker B: Connection there.
[00:07:58] Speaker A: Yeah. And Chris said that on the episode that, like, I think his tennis racket broke or something like that, but they like, got it replaced and did something really like kind gesture towards them. And that's another reason they were like, so shocked when all this came out.
But I do want to stress one thing. Even if they get less time, they will still be convicted felons and convicted killers. Like, for anybody that thinks they're getting away with it, I mean.
Yeah, maybe they are getting less time. My computer is saying it's about to die. Oh, give me just a second.
You know, but they. They are gonna always have that hanging over their head. So if ever they try to apply for living, I mean, I don't know how wealthy they are. I don't know if they can even ever have the money from their family or how that works.
[00:08:46] Speaker B: But so I guess, like, that's one thing, like, I don't know if we mentioned that before, but it's called the Slayer statute. And that always makes me think of Buffy, because the Slayer and Buffy's getting a reboot pop culture from years ago. But in the Slayer statue, you cannot inherit from killing somebody. So realistically, they cannot now, I don't know what like grandparents and all that did, but like, they cannot inherit their parents wealth because you can't make money from killing somebody.
[00:09:15] Speaker A: Right. That's what I thought. So if they have to get a job, you know, I mean, and they've been so wealthy their whole lives, this might be the first time they've ever had to support themselves because they were supported by their parents. They were supported in, you know, prison and stuff, not having to pay for anything and stuff like that. And I mean, it does sound like if they do get out, they do have some family support to kind of help them out. But if ever they apply for a job, try to rent a place out, it's always going to come back that they are convicted felons. And what they're convicted of, that's going to be on their record whenever somebody runs it. So they're always going to have this. You know, this is what they're always going to have to deal with in life. And I. I think that's appropriate under the circumstances. You know, technically, you're not really.
[00:10:05] Speaker B: Well, you're not supposed to make money off of your crime. So, like, if they come out and they write a book about what they did, they're not supposed to profit off of it. So, like, I don't know how. Honestly, if they come out, I'm pretty sure, like, Netflix or Hulu or prime are gonna come out and give them their own reality show.
[00:10:26] Speaker A: Like, yeah, where does that money go?
[00:10:29] Speaker B: But then I think that's the argument. They're not making money off their crime at that point. But if they wrote, like, a memoir, they are making money off their crime. So I don't know how all of that. It's going to work. But that'll be interesting from more of a civil perspective of their case. If they do get to come out.
[00:10:46] Speaker A: If. So I'm assuming the money from their parents had to have gone to somebody else in their family. That family member dies. They can then just leave it to them. And then it's not right.
[00:10:58] Speaker B: Because, I mean, like, if this went to somebody, they can still inherit. They just can't inherit because of the dad.
[00:11:04] Speaker A: But indirectly, I think. Yeah. Anyways, it's gonna be very interesting. Stay tuned. We're gonna, of course, follow it as everything comes out. I'm curious, do we want to switch from Kanye? Because I do think we've tied in the Kardashians to get there.
[00:11:21] Speaker B: Yes, we can switch to Kanye now.
[00:11:25] Speaker A: Kanye is still going off, y'all. So I think we mentioned it's been in and out, that him and the wife broke up or they're back together. I did see this morning, it appears they are about to together.
He did come out with horrible things that we talked about against people who are Jewish. Now he has come out and said that he was essentially sexually assaulted by his cousin.
He issued this song called Cousins, and he has stated that that him, the cousin found inappropriate magazines of. I believe he said his father or something. And. And that they reenacted some of those things. He said the cousin is in jail for, like, murder or something like that. That's the cousin that did all these things.
And again, like, I just. I. I can't imagine as a mom, if I were in Kim's shoes, trying to navigate parenting these children and keeping them away from whatever he's going through and whatever is going on. Because if. If if this were true. Right. This is for anybody who is the victim of sexual abuse. If you choose to talk about it publicly, I. That I admire that. If you choose not to and decide to deal with it privately, I admire that.
If you choose not like whatever it is that you're choosing to do to make it through that, I think that is up to the individual's choice.
I think it's a different layer, though. When you're a celebrity, you have young children, and you're also just putting so much out there, like everything with the hate speech and. And this and Kim. He released text messages about North's name being trademarked or whatever, which I am curious on if you know the laws with. With that, how that works. But, you know, he said that, you know, he'll go to war if Kim doesn't let. Because Kim made him take down the song that he had recorded with P. Diddy and North. So north is Kim and Kanye's oldest daughter. She was on a track with P. Diddy. Kim said, do not release that because, you know, P. Diddy is detained as well for sexual assault, rapes, trafficking. I think a lot of horrible crimes he's been accused of. So I think rightfully so as a mom, she asked that that not be released. He released it and she holds the trademark, so she got it taken down. But I don't know. It's just whatever you are going through, even if the everything is true, I think you have to consider how this is going to affect your children. And this is just so much at once that these kids are potentially being exposed to. I honestly, if I was in Kim's shoes, I would not want my kids going to their dads right now. I would only want supervised visits. I would not trust this person unsupervised with my kids.
[00:14:18] Speaker B: So question. Like, I saw this on Facebook, on another person's Facebook post. So it could be completely right focused, but this person usually knows what they're talking about. Was saying that actually what Kanye showed these materials to his cousin who was underage. So Kanye was actually grooming his cousin. Now, I don't know if all this is true or not, but either if that's the case. Yeah, if I was Kim and knowing that Kanye showed this to his underage cousin, I would be using all I could do to get custody taken away completely because he's a danger not only to himself, but his children.
[00:14:59] Speaker A: For me, I think it. I would want to know context and details just because in like, I have had clients or come in contact with clients who are convicted sex offenders because at 18, they had a relationship with a 15 year old or 16 year old, and we didn't have the romance.
[00:15:20] Speaker B: Six years old.
[00:15:22] Speaker A: Oh, okay. No, yeah. If he was an adult in six, I was thinking, like, you know, if he's 18, cousin, 16, 17, that doesn't give me the ick factor, you know? Now 6 and 18, that gives me the ick factor. Like. No, I'm with you on that. Absolutely.
[00:15:40] Speaker B: And also, I mean, like, if this is disgusting, but it's a cousin, it's so your blood relative and you're comfortable having her, like, to me, like, sitting, going with the wind, where we're keeping the money in the family situation. Like, that's gross enough, but, like, this is just, like, nasty. Yeah, I just want my kids.
[00:16:05] Speaker A: My friend Katie texted me a tweet, and I just thought it was a tweet from Khloe Kardashian. And I was like, oh, my gosh. I was hoping she was popping off on Kanye. It wasn't. She's coming out with, like, some protein popcorn. But I was really hoping because I, I, I mean, I guess I'm kind of a hypocrite because I want Kanye to stop all this because of the kids. Then I kind of want the Kardashians to come out publicly and say something just because I want.
But I will say, when Kim has addressed his bipolar diagnosis, I thought it was very well done. I'm sure she worked with her PR team to make sure that it was carefully crafted. I, I don't think it would do anything to harm her kids. But they, you know, they are doing the right thing. I can say that. While I do wish they would pop off on him, I wish Chloe had popped off in that tweet. I admire them laying low and not saying anything damaging about the kid's dad. I think that speaking speaks volumes to their character as they navigate this.
[00:17:09] Speaker B: I think Scott just needs to put out some tweet about how he's the ex babe, the best ex baby daddy. Best. Exactly. Because he's had his issues, but his are minimal compared to, like, Kanye up.
[00:17:23] Speaker A: To it and holds himself accountable. And he even says in the episodes, like, how he's going to dress it with his kids and stuff, and how, like, these aren't good choices and praise for that. Like, I, I can handle somebody that messes up and then holds himself accountable. We haven't got that with Kanye, and I don't know that we will.
[00:17:42] Speaker B: Well, we don't have it with Chloe's.
[00:17:44] Speaker A: Baby daddy, like, he still ain't seen that kid. I swear he hadn't.
[00:17:49] Speaker B: So like, well, and then speaking. So kind of switching gears, we're still in the Kardashians.
Kim is still going through the probate process with OJ's estate to try to get her family Bible back because for some reason OJ died having possession of Robert Kardashian's Bible. Not really sure I remember seeing something about there. But the issue now with all the stuff being contested, but Kim is trying to go through the court and pay thousands and thousands of dollars to get her family Bible back.
If I was OJ's estate, I would just say, I don't know, yes, it's probably worth money, but it's your family Bible. Give it back.
Give it back.
[00:18:36] Speaker A: My nieces, off topic real quick.
Have been asking for everybody's Bibles. It's been really weird because Brooklyn got a Bible with her name on it for her birthday. So now Chloe wants my mom's Bible. Well, then I want my mom's Bible, but then she has a second Bible. So she gave that Bible to Chloe. But now I have to give my Bible to Maya so I can get my mom's.
This just goes to show family Bibles are important is what we're saying. Give the Bible back to Kim.
[00:19:08] Speaker B: Okay, I don't get it. Just give it back. Just let her have the Bible.
[00:19:11] Speaker A: Get it back. Don't want my mom's Bible. Just tab, if you're listening, I've claimed it.
So do we want to switch years again? Because like I said, it's our pop culture or you said earlier update about Lauren sent me something.
So as we wrap up, I think we want to hit with Autism awareness month being this month, what a judge came out and said in a criminal case. So Lauren, I know you sent me that article. So if you want to talk about what what happened in that case and what's going on with it.
[00:19:45] Speaker B: So in this case, there was a person who was autistic and murdered somebody.
Autistic people are people too. And there are good people, there are bad people. Just in every realm of life, Kanye.
[00:19:59] Speaker A: With feet actually is autistic.
[00:20:02] Speaker B: But in this sense, the prosecution was trying to say because he was autistic is why he killed those people and using his neurological differences to do this. And the judge said, no, you're not going to use his autism is why he killed people and put these people in a lump of. There are plenty of violent, regular, non neurological, divergent people.
[00:20:28] Speaker A: Right?
[00:20:30] Speaker B: There's plenty of violent people in any group. So, like, the judge said, no. And I think that was a big step because I think what the prosecution was doing was belittling all people with neurological differences. And there are certain neurological differences that have a very much a propensity for anger. Like, yeah, if you're. What is it that od defiance, you do have more of a propensity, oppositional defiance disorder for that. But as far as, like, autism, it is a very broad spectrum disease.
Well, not disease, neurological difference. And it is very broad. And what you can't lump all autistic. If you go watch Love on the Spectrum, you will clearly see, she told.
[00:21:19] Speaker A: Us multiple episodes ago, yes, everybody is.
[00:21:22] Speaker B: It is a spectrum. And like, everybody has different degrees of it. It's not like you're either diabetic or you're not. Like, with autism, there is such a difference level and you cannot group those people in one. And the. I just think it was really bad what the prosecution was trying to do. And I'm thankful the judge stepped in and said, we're not going to use your neurological difference as your reason for committing murder. You committed murder. There's plenty of other reasons you did that.
[00:21:52] Speaker A: Right. And, you know, this has been. Autism has been just such a hot topic right now with that case with Love on the Spectrum coming out. It's a really big hit show. A lot of people are talking about it. And, you know, me and Lauren have said we don't like getting into politics, but there's also a difference between politics and morality.
RFK has come out saying that autism is environmentally caused at age like 2ish. And it seems that he is wanting to stomp out autism essentially, basically like, you know, blaming it on things where we all know and doctors know and pediatricians know and me and Lauren know this is a diagnosis at. At birth. It is just a neurological difference. Just like my son who has down syndrome, Luke, it's just part of who he is, and it just makes things different from him and how he processes life. Same thing with autism, and there's nothing wrong with it. And he says that people with autism aren't going to ever use the toilet or hold jobs or contribute to life or pay taxes. And me and Lauren both know several people with autism who do all of those things. And so, you know, in wrapping up, you know, with Love on the Spectrum, the things that RFK has said, the. The prosecutors, shame on them for even attempting this.
We just really want to end this in highlighting, you know, that if you have autism we, we love you, we embrace you for who you are. If you are a parent of my autism, like my heart goes out to you. And having to navigate this, I can tell you that what I learned when I was pregnant with Luke and having him is remember someone saying that for so long they doctors and scientists tried to find out what caused down syndrome, Right? What was it that causes chromosome abnormality? How do we stop it from happening? They couldn't figure it out and they still today haven't figured out what causes it. There is one kind that's genetic and you can test for that. It's called translocation. That's not what my son has. My son got down syndrome. We don't know how. They can't be explained. But then they eventually switched gears and said, you know what? We're not figuring it out, so what can we do to embrace it? And that's when kids started getting ot, occupational therapy, therapy, speech therapy, physical therapy. Okay, well, let's see. They're at a higher risk of this type of cancer and this with vision. So we're going to set guidelines, right? We're gonna set guidelines for pediatricians to get blood draws so we can help these kids. And it changed. And so, you know, the environment that I enter in having Luke is so therapy based. What can we do so that way Luke can have a job and contribute to society? And guess what? If Luke was incapable of doing those things, he'd still be just as valuable, you know, even if, if he's not capable of holding a job. It doesn't. Those things don't define his value as a human being. So it's just really hard to hear you talk about love on the spectrum and all these beautiful things. A couple episodes ago to now discussing this case criminally and the statements made by one of our political leaders and how different, vastly different. That episode of you bragging and saying how wonderful and beautiful this show is to where we are, you know, now and bringing up these, these topics that have hit the media outlets.
[00:25:37] Speaker B: And I do think in today's time we have gotten a lot better at diet. I don't think there's like some. Well, for one, there's a lot more people in this world than ever have been here before. There's more and more people, so there's going to be more autistic people because there's just more people. But I do think we've gotten a lot better at diagnosing it and noticing when people are masking because there's a lot of people out There that function completely fine in the real world, but they're masking who they're like stimming tendencies or all those type things. So I think, you know, we just gotten better at diagnosing it and we're better of accepting and loving everybody.
[00:26:14] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And that's for several diagnosis. You know, I still think there's a lot of things that are under diagnosed, you know, anxiety and depression. I think our depression. I think mental health is very underdiagnosed in men. I think it's harder for men to go to the doctor and talk about how they're feeling and stuff like that. So I don't think it's odd that more people are being diagnosed with autism and we know we're learning more about it, just like we're learning more about down syndrome. You know, my. My goal and sharing my story for Luke is always that if somebody does have an option to choose, you know, to terminate a baby with down syndrome or go forward with their pregnancy, to go forward because of all the beautiful things that down syndrome, you know, it's about. And it. There are scary things, there are some hard things, but the beauty is just, it's just worth it. Like Luke, I mean, yes, there's differences in my. It. Don't get me wrong with Mac, my 3 year old, but as far as the love I have for my kids, it's the same.
Everything is the same with how I feel about my children. I am vastly protective of both of them. I love both of them, their dynamics and their personalities. It's just so fun. And seeing them together is just brothers. Like I love that. And I would hate for anyone to miss out on the beauty of having a child. And Luke has just such a good soul. So, you know, I just, you know, he's not just the diagnosis and there's still value in his life. And like I said, I. I just hate that a community that I akin myself with and just being a special needs mom is going through so much with all of this, this and I felt we were taking steps better with love on the spectrum.
[00:28:09] Speaker B: I think everything is just.
I think things are getting. In general, I think things get better, but sometimes comments are made that are not respectful of those. And I think the best thing we can do is look at people that can give us education on this. And there's some great resources out there for autism awareness. A lot of organizations, nonprofits and a lot of doctors that provide great education. And I think that's one of the best things we can do is educate ourselves on these things.
[00:28:41] Speaker A: Yeah. And the best education you can get. Talk to somebody with autism. Talk to their mom, their dad, the parents, relatives, you, you know, people. Us, we, we were kind of making fun of somebody on Facebook that we knew, me and Lauren, and know just listen. I mean, me and Lauren probably text about you. If you from Union, you post your life on Facebook, we talk about you. But anyways, this person was talking about, oh, gosh, I can't remember what it was, but they were want like resources. And the resources people were commenting were like tik tok influencers and people that had no background in a medical field or anything like that. And I really just wanted to tag Ashley Metter because I'm like, listen, we went to school with somebody who is a doctor and she's not the only one. We, we went to school with nurses, doctors, lawyers and stuff like that. Tag them. Like, quit tagging these people that we don't know. If you want to know something about the medical field, about autism, down syndrome or something like that, I am willing to bet you got on your Facebook friends list and find somebody directly related with that information. Go to them. That's your most credible source. Go to the person that you sat with in the lunch cafeteria for four years. You know her brother, y'all grew up together, y'all were in the band. You could find some kind of connection you have from somebody in high school. If you are from Union, go to them. There's your source.
[00:30:04] Speaker B: Also, if you air your dirty business on there, just be prepared. People are going to say mean things and judge you, but you did it on yourself.
It is what it is.
[00:30:15] Speaker A: It is what it is. And we probably have a text thread about it.
[00:30:19] Speaker B: Well, we hope you enjoyed us today in this little update. I think we are going to have some great series coming out again for you, but DM us send us an email. We have been getting emails from people.
Let us know like if there's stuff you want talked about. We have had some requests, so we're working on kind of putting all that together for some new series in the future. But we'd love to hear from you.
[00:30:43] Speaker A: Yep, see you next week.
