Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:06] Speaker B: Hey, everybody, it's Lacey.
[00:00:08] Speaker A: And I'm Lauren.
[00:00:10] Speaker B: And we're here again with another episode of the Llamas podcast.
[00:00:14] Speaker A: And today we're going to talk about the Michael Orr conservatorship and how we think this is going to impact the nil situations right now with laws and that type stuff in the future. But we do have a question first, and this was actually something at my office that we had just wondered about this week. And the question is, if you are deaf and you get arrested, how do the Miranda rights work? Because we know you have to be read those before questioning and that type stuff.
[00:00:46] Speaker B: Correct. So in a lot of our DUI cases, the officers have a card that they read from. They read Maranda rights from a card. The card also has it in Spanish.
[00:00:58] Speaker A: So.
[00:00:58] Speaker B: So in essence, if somebody was arrested and they were deaf, then the officer still could Mirandize them with showing them the card and giving them the availability to read the card and read their rights on there. Now, in other cases, if they're just bringing them in for questions and they're going to interrogate them, I would imagine they would bring in somebody that knows sign language or again, show them that. But if they're going to interrogate somebody with questions, which is the only time you're going to read somebody their Miranda writes, really, they. They were going to have to have somebody give sign language. But, Lauren, posing that question makes me wonder. They can show them the card for Miranda rights for a dui, but if they don't know sign language, I don't know how they administer field sobriety tests.
[00:01:47] Speaker A: That's what I started thinking about that, like, if you are dead. And I know, like, I've had cases with deaf clients where I've done their estate planning and stuff, and we do have to bring in an interpreter. And one of the things with the protections for people that are deaf with disabilities is I eat the cost of the interpreter because that's kind of the cost of doing business. And we're protecting those people who are deaf. So I don't know. If you are deaf, you are very protected as far as, like, making sure because you are a person with a disability. So I don't know. They couldn't tell you to walk a straight line because they verbally can't tell you that. And I don't know. And like, okay, here's the thing. If you are drunk, this is what I was thinking about with this. Can you read the card like it. Does handing you the card give you, like, did you the Essence of it. Yeah.
[00:02:40] Speaker B: And we've had there. I've seen some pretty intoxicated people and it's going to stand. Even them reading it to you if they're not paying attention. I mean, I've had them officers read Miranda and clients talking over them where they're not listening at all. So I still think at a court of law, if they present it, that's going to stand.
But I don't know how they would administer field sobriety test lately, just very recent.
If we have a client that only speaks Spanish, they are using apps on their phones to administer field sobriety tests. So I found that I think that's pretty creative, to be honest.
But if somebody is deaf, I don't. I would highly doubt that our law enforcement that there's a significant portion that would be able to administer field sobriety tests or anything like that in sign language.
[00:03:29] Speaker A: Yeah. And I don't think just writing it out and telling you walk a straight line. I think that would be really hard.
It's one thing when you can just have a translator app tell you what to do. That's translating word for word.
[00:03:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:03:41] Speaker A: But I think putting it on pen and paper is sometimes harder than just verbally saying it. So.
[00:03:46] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:03:47] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's kind of an interesting thing. And so talking about people with disabilities and those type things gets us back into conservatorships a lot of times. But this time we're talking about Michael or. And I think we all know who he is. We all probably watch the Blind side and we all loved.
[00:04:07] Speaker B: Made my favorite movies. I love Sandra Bullock all warm and fuzzy.
[00:04:13] Speaker A: And then you realize you shouldn't have felt that way because these people kind of sucked.
So kind of talking about that, Michael Ohr's conservatorship was very different than normal conservatorships. So for what, we've talked about this before, but in case you haven't, like watched our one with Brittany or anything like that, a conservatorship is to handle money for someone who is disabled. Like mentally. Not physically disabled, but mentally disabled, or they can't handle funds or a person who is under the age of 18, typically. So like if grandma left grandson, you know, her life insurance policy and didn't put it in a trust, it's going to be held through a conservatorship, typically if he's under 18 and then at 18. So for minors, once you hit the age of majority 18, your conservatorship ends. You're given the money. Typically that's our normal on conserv. I've done a lot of conservatorships for minors where they've inherited something or sometimes it's been. They've been in a car wreck and they're getting awarded money, those type things. So in Michael Orr's situation, he got a conservatorship by the Tuohys as his conservators. The weird thing was it didn't end when he was 18.
It did not end until he was 25.
He didn't know what he was signing when he signed. He thought he was signing adoption papers is what he says. That's.
[00:05:36] Speaker B: That part makes me so sad. Can I just say, like, that just broke my heart when that part wasn't true. Because if y'all know the case and I've seen the movie the Twoies, take him in.
I believe his mom had a drug addiction problem. I don't believe his father was in the picture. So the movie portrays it as the two he's taking him in, wanting to adopt him and make him part of the family and then help him get to the NFL.
Finding out that part wasn't true, and it was more of a trick.
That was heartbreaking to find out, honestly, when everything was kind of coming out with the conservatorship.
[00:06:13] Speaker A: Yeah. So pretty much his conservatorship technically went on until he was 25 years old, which is really rare to see.
And then also, like, the money. So when the Blindside movie came out, the family says they didn't make much money off of it. I don't know if I buy that part of it, but the funds also ran through his conservatorship. He was already in the NFL at this point. He was already making millions of dollars. And the thing about Michael. Or was he had no. Yes, he grew up poor and in the ghetto, but nothing was wrong with him. He had no educational disabilities to where he wouldn't be able to handle his own funds. He was a completely competent person. He just was a young adult that's going to get a lot of money that grew up in a poor situation. And I think we know a lot of these athletes are in that same situation. Like, we both come from a very small, poor town. Most of the people, we aren't used to having lots of money. So, like, the athletes. Same situation typically they're going into. So Michael Orr's situation was nothing different than a lot of athletes. Yeah. His money was held in a conservatorship Till he was 25, and there was no Reason for that. And so the conservatorship was undone. And the thing that got me was even that judge, the probate judge that was undoing this conservatorship, pretty much that on the record. I don't know why this was ever done this way. It should have never been been done this way. So I think that shows us that, you know, this is not a criminal case. This isn't a civil case. This was a probate court case. And they still saw a huge injustice in our legal system with that.
[00:07:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
So when. How old was he when they got the conservatorship, do you know?
[00:08:03] Speaker A: He was almost 18. Like, there was no need to have a conservatorship. No.
[00:08:08] Speaker B: Now with the conservatorship, were they allowed to take his money for themselves?
[00:08:14] Speaker A: So what I was reading with. Okay, so in South Carolina, if you are a conservator, you have to meet with the court to be able to spend money, and they have to make sure it's a suitable reason to spend money. So, for instance, you know, like, if you're conservator over a child, and it's your child, they typically don't let you spend money on stuff you as a parent should spend money on. They're very protective of it. Like, if you go and say, my child needs a new computer, they're gonna say, no. You as the parent should purchase that. Maybe something like braces, which is a big expense. But in this one in Tennessee, there was no oversight over his conservatorship. There was something that had, like, I don't think that's the typical laws there. I think typically stuff should be like, most states would have it. You check in, you ask to spend the money, especially when it's for somebody underage in this situation like that he was in. There should have been reporting mechanisms to where they shouldn't have been able to touch that money without court consent. There should have been accountings given to the court every year. But it seems in this case, none of that happened. None of the stuff that she should have happened with the conservatorship did. They were completely just doing whatever.
[00:09:28] Speaker B: So it should have been more regulated. And it wasn't. It wasn't.
[00:09:32] Speaker A: I don't think an accounting was even ever done, which that should be done yearly.
[00:09:37] Speaker B: So most likely he doesn't even have. Now that the conservatorship has ended, most likely he doesn't even have all of the money that he should have had.
[00:09:45] Speaker A: Right. He pro. I mean, and the thing is, like, at this point, there's no records. Like they probably. There's no telling how much money should have been there, how much they took, and there was nothing ever done.
[00:10:00] Speaker B: Okay, so with that, what is your opinion? What should have been done in that situation? Should there never have been a conservatorship? If the Tuohys really were trying to do the right thing as far as protecting him and his financial interests, but they did not want to adopt him, let's say that. But they did want to protect him and help him make good choices. Because let's be honest, 18 to 22 year olds always do not always make the best choices. And I can't imagine myself if I had had that much money or even at 22, you know, coming into that much money, going into professional sports and knowing how to make smart decisions. I mean, it's still. I'm still learning the right and wrong things to do with money. Right? And I am closer to 40 than I am 30. So to think of, you know, way more money than I have being passed into somebody who's 22, which is kind of what we're talking about with these nil deals, which is between 18 and 22. What advice would you give? Like, what should the Tuohys have done if they truly were trying to help Michael?
[00:11:10] Speaker A: Well, and see, that's kind of the hard part. And all this, I don't know if they really. Because why didn't they adopt him? Adult adoptions are completely legal. So like. And if they had all this money now, adopting him would not have given them access to his financials because it would have been an adult adoption. So there's kind of that part there that kind of puts that like something's weird about it. But realistically, what Michael could have done was given POA to his the two E's to allow them to access his finances but not take away his rights. But, you know, they could help him.
But what they did was strip him of his rights of this money. And I don't think his rights should have been stripped completely. I don't think they ever needed to apply for a conservatorship for him in that situation. Now I think that does bring up, I guess kind of what I'm talking about is the nil and how this is going to work, because you're right, 18, a lot of 18 year olds now are making a lot of money. Mike. Michael Orr wasn't really making a ton of money at that time because. Right.
[00:12:15] Speaker B: It was until he went to the NFL that. And he didn't go till probably he was in his early 20s.
[00:12:21] Speaker A: Right. And so like, with his situation, there wasn't the nil. We weren't getting money at 18. But I guess that's kind of where, seeing how this conservatorship happened now, I do think, for instance, Michael Orr, by the time he hit 21, should have probably got it. He had money at that point. Get an attorney, get this undone. I. Some of it. I'm not going to blame all the tuys on this because he became an adult and a responsible person. He waited, didn't do anything, and he had money. And he could have went and said, hey, hire an attorney, let's get this ended. And he could have had it ended sooner and he may have got more money from it. So there were steps he should have taken. When I feel he was confident to.
[00:13:00] Speaker B: Do so, he might not have been confident to do so, though. Maybe competent. But I think somebody that young and you think these people love you and are trying to do the right thing, I would imagine it's going to be really hard to buck up and kind of against him at such a young age. I know there are things that happened and that were said when I was 21 that I never would have spoke up against because I didn't have the confidence, even though I was competent.
[00:13:30] Speaker A: From what he says, they deteriorated, like, their relationship pretty quickly. So I kind of feel like, I don't know, like, I think things could. I think both people could have done things some different. But I think that brings us to like, the nil because here we are. They put Michael or under conservatorship at 18, around 18, because of the possibility of money. And we have these same situations now, but these kids are actually earning money. You're going from, you know, being in high school to. And the thing is, some of these kids are not adults coming in. You can get, like a lot of people start college at 17 because you don't turn 18 right during that year. So how is this going to impact conservatorships? Should there be legislation that's going to protect these kids? Because I will tell you, there's a lot of bad people out there. That there's bad financial people that'll come, there's bad agents. There are people that are just out to like, get the money from these kids. And I know I'm not debating whether I think the nil is right or wrong. We're in the nil now. They're getting money. What do we do to protect it or to Protect the athletes.
[00:14:43] Speaker B: And one thing that. So my youngest son is named McKinley. We call him Mac, but he is named McKinley. He is named after Kenny McKinley that played at Carolina. Kenny McKinley then went on to play with the Denver Broncos in the NFL and tragically died by suicide.
One thing that has come out about his tragic death was he always wanted to help people financially. So he didn't, from my understanding, you know, didn't have a lot of money when he went to the NFL, he came into a lot of money and he wanted to do everything for his friends, for his family, family. And it just. He just had such a good heart. It's like he couldn't say no to helping people, which is. Is beautiful when people do want to help others, but at the same time, you have to take care of yourself. And I think he got into a situation where he was helping so many people at that point. There were financial concerns for taking care of himself and his, you know, immediate family. And there was this tragic ending. And so talking about this does make me worry about that as well. You know, an athlete coming into a lot of money and he's got family members and friends, and he has a good heart, or she has a good heart and wants to do the right thing. But, you know, we know as much older adults, that's a balance, right? We. We can help others, but we have to balance it with protecting ourselves and making sure we're protecting ourselves financially, too. And football is not a job that you do into your 60s or 70s. You have to protect those finances that you get early on to last you for forever if you're in the league for five years or 10 years. And so these even younger kids now, you know, because Kenny was older, I think he was early 20s when he came into all of this money. And so I just.
I do think there should be some kind of rules and regulations for this money to protect kids so that way they are cared for financially, for themselves, for their future, for what they're pouring into the field, the courts, you know, whatever they're stepping onto.
[00:17:00] Speaker A: And I think that's like. Because a lot of times I've seen athletes, too, have issues because they don't realize about the taxes they have to pay with stuff because you have to pay taxes everywhere you earn money. So a lot of these pro athletes don't realize, okay, I played, you know, play for the Panthers. I'm not just playing in Charlotte. I'm playing in Atlanta. I'm playing in Dallas. I'm playing in New York. I'm playing In California, like there's a lot of implications and a lot of them do not know how to manage this money, how to save this money for taxes and those type things. And so I think there is like, look at like Lenora Sellers, quarterback for Carolina. We're gamecocks. That's who we know him a lot about of. But he's came into a lot of money. He's got a lot of nil money right now. What is he going to do with that? And you're right, a lot of people have good intentions, good hearts and they can't, they don't know what to do with it because. And I've seen this not just in athletes, but I have people that are special needs disabled and they get a trust or some fund to protect their money because they want to give it to their friends, they want to do good things. But there is a balance. And so what is Congress is. Do you think Congress needs to step in and put rules on this regulated a lot more for their protections?
[00:18:20] Speaker B: I hate the government also just in invading as well. That too makes me nervous. Right. So I don't, I'm with you. I don't know the right answer, but it's definitely a concern. But I do struggle with the government, you know, stepping into people's pockets too.
[00:18:41] Speaker A: I think there needs to be a lot more maybe I think there needs to be some more regulations on disclosures and those type things. I think if you're a financial person working with a young athlete, I think you need to make more disclosures. I think there has to be something to show our agents. I think the agents contracts may need to be more public or something. So that way, like maybe the agents have to get a contract approved because what if they come in there and they have all these sneaky terms in there And I know yes, if you're going to enter into contract, you need to go get an attorney to represent you to help with these. But a lot of people are scared of attorneys. They're scared we're just going to take their money and we're not. I mean we do this to earn a living. But like not out. There's good attorneys out there. Yeah. Like I think maybe there has to be some more regulations that take the money from the athletes. But there's more disclosures out there. Like, you know, like in the Fair Debt Collections act, creditors are supposed to give you all these disclosures before you can enter into a loan. Maybe we need an act like that before you enter into an agency, before you enter into A financial agreement, there's more disclosures so we know the athlete knows what they're entering into.
[00:19:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
And one thing I wonder is, I wonder if these universities have a financial advisor on staff.
I think, you know, I have a financial advisor, Lauren. I'm sure you do as well.
I think that would be something big that universities can do as well, is staff a financial advisor and require, you know, every athlete to meet with the financial advisor, you know, once or twice a year to get advice or even.
[00:20:29] Speaker A: To possibly make that a class or something like, to have, like. Because I know college does not prepare us financially. Law school didn't give us much hope financially, like on how to run a business, how to do things, but to have like a class that all athletes that are. I mean, I think it'd be good for anybody but athletes to go over debts, go over how to manage your money, go over balance and checkbooks, doing stuff to protect these athletes, to give them the knowledge. You know, if they want to go give all their money away, cool. But let them know that they had the knowledge to do it, to protect themselves.
[00:21:02] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
To wrap up, I think if anybody is listening this, that's a parent of an athlete. I think we would just strongly encourage you and your child to talk to a financial advisor. And if they're not implementing these teachings in school, go ahead and implement them now. And I think, you know, if any athletes are listening to this, if you want to help others, that is a beautiful thing. But always make sure you're balancing that with looking out for yourself and your future as well. A lot of these sports are not sports that you can play for the next 40 to 50 years. And you have to stretch this money to last you that long if this is your career.
So we encourage all of you to talk to a financial advisor and find out what is best to protect you. And they can help you budget. They can say, hey, if you want to help out family and friends, let's say, you know, you've got $2,000 a year to do it. That's what's in your budget to make this money last this long. And then you can decide from there where you want to give that money to help others. And then that way you are have somebody advising you on how to balance helping yourself. And then if somebody says, hey, I need money for X, Y and Z, you can tell them, say, oh, well, let me know next year. I'll talk to my financial advisor. But I don't have control over my money. I have an advisor that helps Me and I'll talk to them at my next appointment and see what I can do. And then you're telling, like, hey, you know, I'm not just telling you no, I do care a lot about you, but I have somebody guiding me in this. I'm not saying no, but I'm not saying yes. But I have to take it in, you know, into account with everything else on my plate financially. Our advice for athletes right now would be to definitely get a financial advisor. So a financial advisor is going to sit down with you and look at how much you're making, how much it's going to take to get you to retirement, and then what you can budget for. So that way, if somebody comes up that's a family member or a friend and they're asking you for money because they know you're making nil money or you're already in the NFL and making money there, you can say, hey, I appreciate you asking me. I do want to help. I will sit down with my financial advisor when I meet with him next to see if it's in my budget right now. Because then you're just not saying no and you're not saying yes. But you're making an educated decision on what is best for you financially and you're talking to somebody that is a professional that is going to help you budget to help people and also budget to make sure that you get through retirement age with the job as a professional athlete that you have.
[00:23:41] Speaker A: So I think for today, you know, we told you, get a great team of people out there, get your financial advisor, get an insurance person. Insurance is great to have in case of accidents like Marcus Lattimore did. Get attorneys, surround yourself with good people, good family, good friends to really protect you. And this isn't just for athletes, for anybody. Have that good team of people. And if you have questions on that, send us a dm. Let us know. And if you have thoughts on the nil, definitely drop us. Because I think drop us a dm, give us more, and we'll be talking about this in the future. I don't think regulations are far from over, so let us know what you think. Give us a follow on Instagram or Facebook or follow our podcast on Apple, Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts. And we hope to see you again next week. Thanks for joining us today.
