Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Foreign.
[00:00:06] Hey, Patty. Welcome to the Llamas podcast.
[00:00:10] Welcome to Llama Podcast. I'm Lacey. What's your name?
[00:00:15] Mama.
[00:00:17] And we're here without Lauren today, unfortunately.
[00:00:22] She. Her.
[00:00:24] Oh, yeah, yeah. She had. Her husband had a medical emergency. Not life or death, pretty much. Yeah. But she cannot be with us today.
[00:00:35] So this is me and Mac and.
[00:00:37] What.
[00:00:39] That's recording us. Don't.
[00:00:43] You're trying to mute us. All right, if you go get your tablet and stay on it for a minute. Quit picking your nose. I'll get you. Quit.
[00:00:50] Go get your tablet and I'll get you some candy. Me do this real quick. Okay. And I'll get you some candy. Deal.
[00:00:55] All right, so this is how it is working at the holiday season, especially when you are a law mama. And I was actually in court yesterday for administrative hearings, and there was another attorney there, and she has kids.
[00:01:07] And we literally. Court was running behind.
[00:01:10] We were there for like an hour waiting for a hearing to start. And it was so needed because me and her just had a therapy session about practicing law this time of year because the kids have so many things at school. Luke had to dress up as a Grinch the other day. He had. Wear the most gold. I don't know who has gold holiday socks. Mac had to build a gingerbread house, and they invited everybody to come. And so it's just so much to keep up with. And the courts are not slowing down at all. I think me and my associate have been in court all week, my law and partner all week. We have court all next week as well, every single day. And so I do think it's left up to moms more than dads to keep up with school activities and school functions.
[00:01:57] I know that Lauren's not here, but she had a program today for her daughter's school. I don't. I don't even know if she's going to be able to make it because her husband, like I said, had a medical emergency she had to get him to.
[00:02:11] So it's just a chaotic time of the year. And. And so, unfortunately, we had to break this one up, so it's just going to be me. But we are going to continue with our theme of true crime around the holidays and homicides. And today my story is actually out of Florida, so I wanted to get something a little different. I know we talked about family annihilations, and this is similar in that.
[00:02:37] But my story takes place in Florida. So there was this couple, and. And their names were. Oh, I can't remember.
[00:02:46] I'm Horrible with names. I remember Stephen and Michelle, they were not from Florida. They were actually from somewhere up north.
[00:02:54] But Stephen had gotten a really good job in Florida and so they decided to move and they had a two year old child as well.
[00:03:03] Also, one of the reasons they moved is because Michelle, the wife, she had had an affair.
[00:03:08] And so they kind of saw thought like with Stephen getting a job in Florida, they would distance themselves and just kind of have a little bit of a fresh start. So they lived in a really nice gated community and you know, lots of neighbors and stuff like that. Very felt very safe, very secure.
[00:03:31] But two days after Christmas, they 911 got a phone call. And there's nobody on the other end of the phone call.
[00:03:42] It was just kind of. They could hear like rustling around, but that was it. So they were trying to track the phone to see what was happening, what was coming out of it. So eventually they figured out where the call was coming from and they were able to send law enforcement out because they never could get their questions answered.
[00:04:02] And so.
[00:04:06] Oh yeah, we'll bring it home. Bubba likes ketchup, so. He does.
[00:04:14] People are gonna be either love this episode or hate it.
[00:04:18] Can you go find some candy? Ask Kayla. There's candy in the pantry. She'll get it for you. Tell her your mommy said to give you some candy. Okay.
[00:04:29] It's in the kitchen.
[00:04:31] Let me finish my story. Okay.
[00:04:38] Okay. Kayla knows what it looks like, guys. Kayla or Miss Caroline.
[00:04:44] So they arrive at this house and they see the two year old and then they find the bodies of Stephen and Michelle.
[00:04:53] They had both been stabbed.
[00:04:56] Michelle was in a very odd position, almost like that she was sexually assaulted. She was not sexually assaulted, but the way the body was positioned, they did think that was a possibility at the time. It was just not a natural place for a body. It was definitely staged and placed. And so the police are digging. They talk to the neighbors. The neighbors didn't really hear anything.
[00:05:23] One neighbo did say that he heard like a motorcycle around that time, but that was all he really could remember. And it didn't really stick out to him until later on in the investigation.
[00:05:35] But they start digging into like, who could have done this. And the family, like I said, is they're not from Florida.
[00:05:41] They find out about Michelle's affair. So of course their mind kind of goes there. Like, is that what happened? Did he come to Florida? But like I said, he was hours and hours and hours away, a completely different state. And he had a rock solid alibi. So it wasn't that? So then they start digging in again.
[00:06:01] They actually find out that Stephen was having an affair, the husband, with a woman at work named Kelly.
[00:06:08] So Kelly worked with Stephen.
[00:06:11] She was not married, but she was in a relationship for a very long time with her children's father.
[00:06:18] They had separated, but they continued to live together.
[00:06:21] And it was more that she wanted the separation. He didn't. His name was Fred Cooper. And so it was just a weird dynamic. But even though they broke up, the reason she didn't kick him out at that time was because it was Christmas and around the holidays, he didn't. She didn't want him to have to, like, find a place to be.
[00:06:41] Well, as they continue their investigation, they find out about the affair with Kelly. And so digging into that, and they did find out that there was a work holiday party where Stephen took Michelle.
[00:06:56] Kelly brought her boyfriend Fred. And apparently it was as if that Michelle kind of knew about the affair, the wife, because there were words exchanged between Kelly and Michelle at the Christmas party.
[00:07:12] So the police did find out about that.
[00:07:15] As they continue to dig, they kind of get into finding out about Fred and how upset he was with the breakup. And Fred did learn about the affair as well.
[00:07:28] So they also found out he drove a motorcycle.
[00:07:32] So they obtained some footage from like a gas station that was nearby, the neighbor, or the neighborhood that Michelle and Steven lived at. Once they got that within the time frame of when they were murdered, they saw a man on a bike, on a motorcycle, which matched the description of the motorcycle that Fred had, which also matched the description of the motorcycle that the neighbor saw that day that they were murdered. Also, there was DNA evidence underneath Michelle's fingernails. That DNA evidence matched Fred.
[00:08:12] So he's arrested and he is put on trial. Well, in the first, there's. It was actually a mistrial of the first case.
[00:08:21] In that first case, Fred testified that he actually hooked up with Michelle, the wife, and that the reason his DNA was under the fingernails is because they had slept together, I think he said, in her car and in some car that day or the night before, something like that. So that was why his DNA was under her fingernails.
[00:08:45] Anyways, I'm not sure why that was enough with the jury, but I guess they were hung. They couldn't really decide whether or not he was guilty or not.
[00:08:56] So the first trial actually ended up in a mistrial. The second trial, though, Fred changed his story.
[00:09:03] He didn't say that they had. That he had sex with Michelle.
[00:09:09] And so I can't remember what his story was the second time. But because he did change his story, he was still under oath the first time when he testified, so they were able to use that statement to impeach him with. So his story has significantly changed. And when that happened, the prosecutor cross examined him on everything that he had changed. And so the jury did convict him of murder in the second, in the second trial.
[00:09:39] What investigators think happened is he did not want, excuse me, he did not want to leave Kelly. Like, he didn't want Kelly to leave him. And I guess like she had said, you know, her and him were breaking up and she felt that Stephen was going to leave Michelle for her. Stephen. So he didn't want that to happen. He wanted his family to stay together. He wanted to keep Kelly. So they believe that he planned these murders in hopes that he would be able to stay together and she would stay with him.
[00:10:14] They believe that when he came in after killing them, he did feel bad about leaving the toddler there.
[00:10:22] So. Because when I, I remember like when I was like, how would the 2 year old have called 91 1? I mean, maybe some could, but I don't think most kids learn that that young of an age. I think that happens more so like around four because that's where Mac, that y' all have seen and heard from today, he's learning, learning her address and phone numbers and stuff like that now.
[00:10:45] But they believe that he actually called 911 himself before leaving the home and left it there because of, of the baby. So definitely a terrible case and a terrible situation because, I mean, two days after Christmas, this child loses both of his parents. And one of the grandparents spoke at the sentencing hearing and you know, pointed out that he left this child without any parents, like for the rest of his life or her life. I can't remember if it was a little boy or girl. So definitely terrible. But I do have to point out that as terrible as it is, I mean, we've seen some terrible things even in this series of killing children.
[00:11:30] So I do have to point out that Fred did. Okay, go ahead.
[00:11:34] Fred did not harm the child and also we believe called 911 so that way they wouldn't be there. Because you know my story last week, the grandfather is the one that killed his wife and his children. He did not kill his grandbaby. But, but he left that baby there without any help at all. I think the baby was left alone. I think they. For at least 12 to 24 hours.
[00:12:02] So that's something I will have to say that Fred did not do.
[00:12:06] I don't think there was any other way for anybody to call 911. It. I think it had to have been him to get help. So at least I guess there's that in, in this situation.
[00:12:19] But that is my homicide during the holiday story out of Florida. And if y' all have any questions or any stories that you want us to go over, please let us know. But a little advice. Hug a mom. This time of the year, I mean, we, we really are struggling. It is just so hard with everything on our plates. I don't want to discredit stay at home moms. I know that that's not an easy job, but I just relate more to working moms because that's what I am. And you know, with working, it just doesn't. In our job right now as lawyers is just not slowing down. So if you see a mom that practices law and during the holiday season, give her a hug, tell her she's doing a great job.
[00:13:05] You know, just do whatever you can to uplift her spirits. Because we just have so much going on in our brains right now and it's a lot. I'm just, I have been tired every single day this week and I've slept fine and literally know it's just, you know, mental exhaustion at this point.
[00:13:21] But that is the Llamas podcast and that's kind of why we started this, you know, just to talk about some of the things we go through in our lives because I do think it's very different from the men that are in our field and different than the women who, you know, don't have children in this field. So next week Lauren is going to do a solo episode as well because I'm taking my kids to Disney World before Christmas with my oldest niece and my mother in law. So I'm super excited about that. So y' all will have Lauren next week. I will be out and we will either be back together right before the year ends or we will see you in June, I'll see you in January.
[00:14:02] Have a great Christmas holiday celebration, and we'll see you next week.
