Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: It's Lacey, and I'm Lauren, and welcome to another episode of the Llamas podcast.
[00:00:12] Speaker A: And so today we're going to be discussing some local cases and criminal ties.
Yes. That Lacey is aware of. But next week, we are going to talk about America's Next Top Model in the documentary. So if you are. Are.
And some of the legal perspectives from it, because that was kind of brushed over very quickly in the documentary. But if you watch our podcast and want to be up to date for next week, make sure you watch.
And it's only three episodes, so it's really, I think, about an hour each. But if you're like me and Lacy, you probably watch this back on the CW in the day. So, like, I did see some memes floating around, like, you can't have opinions on this unless you watch this on the CW back in the day. And I feel like that's legit because it was a different time and it really was body images. I know we've discussed this before, but just different world. So watch that so you can get with us next week.
But I did want to ask Lacy a question today, and I have not told her this before, and I just want to know how is, like, how does it impact you as a criminal defense attorney when, like, I guess allegations come out in the court of, like, I guess we see in so many celebrity cases.
Honestly, in asking this question, I was thinking about the Epstein files, but we're not going there yet. We don't know if we're gonna go there. But just like, there may be names on that list that truly did nothing wrong. But in. I mean, I'm just saying, like, they said, like, Adam Sandler was on it, not because he did anything wrong, but because his agent, blah, blah, blah, blah.
But, like, in the court of public opinion, these people can be crucified before there's ever a trial or before real evidence comes out. So how do you feel about, like, in criminal defense, we are innocent until proven guilty. So how is it hard for you in that line to. Public opinion versus the legal side of things and how all of that works out?
[00:02:14] Speaker B: Well, it's not just public opinion, honestly. It's the prosecutors, too. I think most prosecutors enter every single case with, okay, not have we proven this? Is there enough proof in this case, when I open this file, I think they open this file and say, okay, this person is guilty. What do I need to offer?
So I don't think it's just public opinion. I actually think that's how our entire justice system it's, it's supposed to, to be innocent until proven guilty, but it's not. And remember we briefly talked about the scene files before and whether we thought they should be released. And I had said I had some hesitation because what if there are names or information that isn't true and it comes out and I just don't think, sorry, just going to say it. I just don't think we as a society have enough intellect to grasp everything and do independent research and listen to people who know more about these things than we do. To get the full story to form our opinions, we jump to certain sides. A lot of us only focus on certain media avenues. We're not looking at everything, you know, in forming a basis. You know, when we went to college we were taught look at your sources, where your sources come from, your biases, look at multiple sources.
We had to do all these things before we formed our, our opinion in our papers that we were gonna, you know, write. And we don't do that as a society. And well, I don't think our journalists
[00:03:52] Speaker A: do that nearly as much anymore. Either. Like, and we were talking about divisive. Yeah, yeah.
[00:03:58] Speaker B: And we were talking, I was talking to Mark, we went for a walk on Friday and he was talking about how these kids, because he's a teacher, need instant gratification or instant answers. Like there's no patience. And I said, I kind of noticed that with my clients lately. If I don't give an instant response, I could get a bad Google review or I'm getting a not nice email or text and it's because I was working on other cases that I have court for that may take priority or I'm in court, that that instant response isn't there. We as society are used to having things be so instant. So I think when things come up in the news or whatever on Facebook, people want to form that instant opinion. They don't want to. And this is, you know, what I've been taught in therapy. Sit back, sit back and listen, get feedback, read and then form your opinion. You don't have to have that instant gut. Okay, this is what I think, this is what I'm going to do. I.
But I just think because of social media and because of the Internet and how fast paced our world is right now, I worry that with the Epstein files and I know, you know, with public opinion, everyone body wants to form it in an instant, you know, just an arrest, oh, they're guilty. You know, I can't tell you how many times I've seen Comments on news articles, and I know way more about the case than they do, and it's terrible. And we have to screenshot these comments because they're potential jurors if this case goes to trial, you know, but just one allegation, they think automatically they're guilty.
As a matter of fact, just this morning, Mac was. I was telling Mac I had to go to the jail today because I was going to help people get out and get back home. And he really struggles with that. He loves police officers. And first off, he said police don't take people to jail. They take bad guys. And he doesn't understand that that is the same. Like bad guys don't equal a person to him. Yet at this age, he's only four, you know, but when I was talking about, you know, getting people out of jail, it's like, why do you do that? And I said, because they need to get home their families. But also, sometimes police officers make mistakes.
And that's, you know, it's up to me to show those things. And it is. It's up to me to show it. It's not supposed to be. It's supposed to be the burden on the state to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt. But it's not.
It's not. I can't. I got an offer one time, and I emailed the prosecutor back a synopsis of the body cams, and only then did he go watch the body cams and then dismiss the case. He didn't watch the body cams before making an offer. And I think most of our prosecutors don't. I think most of our prosecutors go by a synopsis and an incident report and then just toss us an offer. And I feel like that's how society is. You know, they get a synopsis of a news article of an arrest, they're already guilty. Let's move on. So I do worry, like I said, about the Epstein files being released, because, I mean, yes, I do think that it should re. Be released to the fact that we should know who's on it.
And I believe the victims should be able to get justice for that.
And at the same time, I agree, like, like Lauren said you was saying with Adam Sandler, I think there could be some names on there, and their involvement is not really that much. You know, maybe they're mentioning something so far off from what actually was happening. And I don't know that society has the.
We can be. We can have the intellect. We're just choosing to not use it in. In, you know, taking in that information.
[00:07:32] Speaker A: Well, like with all this stuff, it can ruin your career. Even if you are found innocent, it can ruin your career. And I think about, I watched the show Wednesday on Netflix the first season. I haven't watched the second. Like the one of the main guys on there, I think he got an allegation of sexual abuse to get somebody. Well, it turns out that was in like an accurate the girl just said it kind of thing. But because it's ruined his career. He was young and upcoming. So I mean like we even see the damage it did. We've talked about this before to Johnny Depp and granted he came back from it and I think we all realized that was not all him. And he did donate to Eric Dane's family and all this stuff.
Yeah.
[00:08:19] Speaker B: What a 2026 we've had.
[00:08:22] Speaker A: I know it is very sad with Catherine o' Hara killed me, James Vanderbie and then Robert Duvall died. But like he was 90 years old. He was death. It's sad but like, but then right after that, Eric Dane and I don't know if, I don't know if you watch the show, but there's a show euphoria. Eric Dane plays one of the characters on it. He plays Jacob Elordi's dad on the show and he actually filmed his scene for that before his death and it will not air probably till this summer. So that is going to be a cry fest for me watching him. Oh, I bet in that knowing that he did this, knowing, I mean his wasn't like, I guess like he knew from the get go he wasn't going to make it and still wanted to go do his final scenes and stuff.
[00:09:14] Speaker B: I'll just get cold chills.
Well, switching gears to the topic today, so me, Lauren covered, you know, true crime stories, things that happen that we see. And one of these case I'm going to tell you is in the news. But it has a connection here to South Carolina and to my cousin.
But sometimes true crime stories find you and they're, you know, have local aspects to it. So I don't know, Lauren, do you, do you want the funny one first or. It's kind of funny but kind of gross.
The other one is kind of like your run of the mill true crime story.
[00:09:50] Speaker A: Also, if y' all see me drinking if you watch this, yes, this is a wine glass but it also keeps coffee hot. So it is coffee. It is not wine. It is my morning caffeine.
[00:10:01] Speaker B: They don't know it's the morning. They could have thought that it's five O'. Clock. And it's five o'. Clock. You know, it's five o' clock somewhere. Lauren.
All right, do you want funny gross or run in the mill first?
[00:10:12] Speaker A: Funny. Gross. Okay.
[00:10:14] Speaker B: So I was on Tick Tock and an attorney friend of mine, Ali Benevento, she's with a Strong Strom law firm, but follow her on Tick Tock if y' all want to. I know she's covering a lot of stuff on the Luigi guy that killed the insurance guy. So anyways, she was leaving court here in Richland, and she just said sometimes, you know, real life is way more entertaining than tv. So there was a guy. It was not her client. And I don't know if he was pleading to it or if there was just a motion on it. So I don't know if these facts are like a factual basis for a plea or these are allegations. But regardless, she said she was in court for some boring motions. And this man was of Eastern European descent. He was there for breach of peace high and aggravate nature. So what happened was, is he was working. He's here on a work visa. And he went to a gas station, I'm assuming to get a hot dog or something, like in and out. But one of the condiments he wanted was out. Mustard, ketchup, something she didn't know. But he got really upset about this. So he made a scene. I guess the clerk maybe went back and forth or something, but it escalated. So he got so mad, he went to the condom aisle and he busted open a box of condoms, took out a condom and swirled it around in the onion juice by the hot dogs and then left it hanging over the counter.
So he was then arrested, of course, for breach of peace high and aggravated nature for swirling a condom when he was mad about the condiments.
And so now he's going to be deported.
[00:11:58] Speaker A: Like.
Like, it's sad because, like, that was. I get it. Like, it could have been mad over that.
Well, like, I get it, though. Like, it's a really hard day, and you got that hot dog and you really want that mustard, and it's not there. Like, I get. I could. I probably would not have had the same approach as him, but I probably would have gotten my car. And that could have been one of those moments. I was, like, crying or something because I get it. I feel like that's not. When you said he went to the condom aisle and took it. I thought we were going somewhere way different with that. So I'm glad all he did. I don't understand why he picked that to swirl around. And I would have probably, like, got some ketchup or something and made a mess. But at least it's like that. Like, I guess he was like, I feel like this probably had been a really rough day. I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt.
And this had been a really rough day, and we were just, like, done. And that was the straw that broke the camel's back.
And. But I hate it because I really don't feel like that's a reason to be deported.
[00:13:06] Speaker B: Well, I don't have as much empathy as you. Usually I do, but for me, I think that's ridiculous. You're an adult throwing a toddler tantrum when you're here on a work visa and you know that people are getting deported for even an arrest.
And you're gonna go and act like that and get a condom and swirl it in onion juice. That's why you're getting deported, because you swirled a condom in onion juice?
[00:13:32] Speaker A: Yes. I just feel like I've had those days, and I'm, like, better at controlling my anger. But, like, I get it, like, when you have had it. Now, granted, he could have just be easily pissed off and did this no matter what, but I get when you're, like, up to here, and that was just the final straw type thing, I get it. I feel sorry for him being deported for that, because that's all he's ever done wrong in his life. We all have a bad day kind of thing.
I do feel sorry for him, but I get it.
[00:14:03] Speaker B: He should get deported. But you should have acted better, especially knowing everything.
[00:14:09] Speaker A: So we have a. I think. I don't know if it's a client in her case or somehow associated with our case, but this had nothing to do with us.
This was, like, in a divorce situation. This was just a story that we've been told. So, yeah, with a grain of salt. But supposedly this one person was charged with assault and battery because he threw a ham sandwich at somebody else.
Like, it was, like, his wife, lover. And he got pissed off, and they were, like, at a restaurant, and he saw him and he was eating a ham sandwich, and he threw the ham sandwich in his face. So he got charged with assault for that.
[00:14:45] Speaker B: That's ridiculous.
[00:14:46] Speaker A: So, I mean, like, I think we all.
[00:14:49] Speaker B: I can understand that a little more.
[00:14:52] Speaker A: That's the lover. Like, that's like. Yeah, but you don't know. That hot dog could have been the only good thing in his day.
I mean, if it were Luke, if
[00:15:03] Speaker B: it Were my son. That's all he eats, I guess.
[00:15:06] Speaker A: Look, my husband loves a good hot dog. Like that is his favorite food. So I could see like, granted, I don't think he'd be that stupid, but I could see him mumbling curse words under his breath and like just leaving the store sad and angry. So that was the highlight of that man's day and now he's getting deported.
[00:15:25] Speaker B: Well, please ask, tell Wes that if he ever goes and gets a hot dog in there out of the condiments, he prefers not to swirl a condom in onion juice because it will lead to a 10 year misdemeanor.
[00:15:38] Speaker A: That is so excessive for that.
[00:15:42] Speaker B: Well, I, I could be wrong. Go listen to the Tick tock. I can see. I want to say that like at some point the feds got involved because they thought that maybe he was HIV positive as well. And this being a public.
[00:15:56] Speaker A: But what did that have to do if there was no.
[00:15:59] Speaker B: I swear I heard that in the tick tock, I could be making it up. Go listen. But anyways, but like even if he
[00:16:05] Speaker A: is HIV positive, if he wasn't like cutting himself and bleeding, what does it matter? I mean like, unless he was like, put my blood on it, what does it matter?
[00:16:18] Speaker B: So Lauren thinks this should have been regular reach of peace, the 30 day misdemeanor. And Mr. Whomever, this is for the onions.
[00:16:29] Speaker A: Never did I think you would have
[00:16:32] Speaker B: more empathy for me in situations as as this. But this one is tugging at Lauren's heartstring. So Ally, if you know who the prosecutor is in this, please let us know because Lauren wants to write a letter of recommendation.
[00:16:46] Speaker A: His defense. Like I get it, that hot dog was make or break.
[00:16:50] Speaker B: Let us know who his lawyer is because Lauren's coming in with the mitigation. So.
Oh gosh, moving on a little more, I don't know, serious. But did you see about this guy named Caleb Flynn being arrested and he was a former contestant on American Idol?
[00:17:12] Speaker A: Think I saw an article, but I didn't read it. So I don't know anything about it.
[00:17:16] Speaker B: So for those of you that my cousin Paige is from the upstate, she used to work at this company and when she went on her lunch break, she would go to the gym. And so she texted me last week about this. So she texted me which called me and she said that she got these screenshots where Kayla Flum was arrested. Well, when she worked at this company and took her lunch breaks, there was this guy at the gym and it was Caleb Flynn and she said that he would just be working out when her and her friends were working out. And I guess they made like, small talk and stuff. And he had said he was from Ohio, and she said, do you have any family or anything? He said, no, you know, just me.
And I think it was probably hitting on her. She didn't say those words, but I bet he was.
Paige is very beautiful. She's very fit.
So, yeah, so her and her friends went back that day and they were able to, like, look them up on Facebook or something. And he had a whole family. He. He had a wife, he had kids, and he had just lied and said he was here by himself and didn't have anybody.
So after that, they just kind of stayed their distance. Well, he was also like some type of, like, youth minister or associate minister at a church in the upstate.
So at that time, Paige's brother and. And his now ex wife, but wife at the time, we're looking at different churches. They were looking at the church he went to. So Paige was like, hey, told Jennifer, Kevin's wife at the time, just so you know, like, heads up about this guy. May not want to get too close and comfy with him.
So she's like, okay. So Jennifer listens to True Crime podcast, and she's the one that came across the article where he was arrested. So. And she sent it to Paige. So I guess they ended up moving back to Ohio.
And somewhere in here, he did audition for American Idol. I think I read somewhere, like, his little clip was like, I just love my wife and love Jesus. My wife is the most beautiful person I know. And so he has now been arrested and charged with her murder.
He.
[00:19:30] Speaker A: That was not where I thought. I thought you were gonna say he's like, got arrested for polygamy or something. I'm not thinking we're going there.
[00:19:38] Speaker B: They moved back to Ohio, and I don't know what he was doing for work. I read that she was a substitute teacher and volleyball coach. But apparently he said that there was an intruder, that he was laying on the couch because he didn't feel good or something.
And somebody broke into the home.
Didn't kill him, didn't shoot the kids, Just went straight to the bedroom and fired shots at her. She had two or three gunshot wounds to her head and then left. And so he called 911 and said that there was an intruder, there was a home invasion.
I don't know how long they investigated the case, but eventually they ended up charging him with her murder and for tampering with evidence or contaminating. A crime scene. Something like that. So he is now. I don't know if he's out yet. They did give him a bond. They set bond at $2 million. Very high bond. So I don't know.
[00:20:35] Speaker A: But he doesn't deserve bond. He murdered your wife. Like.
[00:20:39] Speaker B: But this is ease. You're going. You're proving my point. And the first question you asked me, you're jumping to conclusion, let's say.
[00:20:49] Speaker A: But you told me facts surrounding this. What investigator.
[00:20:53] Speaker B: This is tr. Investigators don't know what I know. And so we don't know what they know.
[00:20:58] Speaker A: But like, here's the thing.
Like, what burglar or whoever. Unless it is a true crime of passion and we find out she was having an affair and he found out she was married or blah, blah, blah. But I mean, like, for one, like, 90% of the time, it's the spouse in these situations. Just statistics. But to. You're not going to break into somebody's. If you wanted to just kill her, I don't think you would intrude into somebody's house. I think you would, like, find her at her car after work.
[00:21:30] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:32] Speaker A: And honest. Okay. If you're. I don't know, somebody's breaking into my house and I hear a gunshot go off. I'm gonna pull the gun and shoot them. Like, I'm not gonna let them walk out if I think they just killed my husband.
[00:21:45] Speaker B: It's. What I'm curious. I'm definitely gonna have to follow it just because of its connection with the upstate and with.
But yeah, so that was.
[00:21:54] Speaker A: It's good she looked him up on Facebook.
[00:21:56] Speaker B: Right.
[00:21:58] Speaker A: And didn't go on a date with him or anything like that.
[00:22:00] Speaker B: Like, she said that night she couldn't really sleep.
She said it just gave her a lot of anxiety.
She said her roommate didn't really understand that. But I mean, I can kind of get that because like she said too, like, how did your life end up that way if you really did do it?
How did that. Like, that's sad that they. That's what you thought you needed to accomplish for whatever reason. You know, if you're seeing somebody else or you were unhappy in your marriage, like, how. How pathetic it is that you let your life get to that point.
And, you know, now kids don't have their dad, they don't have their mom. So she just had all these thoughts swirling in her head.
[00:22:41] Speaker A: We have these poor children because their dad's gonna go to jail forever. Like, and then who's gonna raise them? Like, I mean, That's. I mean, there may be family, but what if there's no family?
[00:22:56] Speaker B: I will say what I read. He sounded very distraught on the 911 call. And his defense lawyer came out with a statement and said something like, you know, with how fast these charges came, he didn't believe that there was a thorough investigation and that a lot of times in these cases, they automatically jump to the spouse instead of doing a thorough investigation. And I will say we saw that in our book.
[00:23:23] Speaker A: Was this at night?
[00:23:24] Speaker B: I believe so.
[00:23:25] Speaker A: Okay. I'm just like. So you weren't in the bed with your wife?
[00:23:29] Speaker B: He said he was sick, so he was sleeping on the couch.
[00:23:33] Speaker A: Well, how did this person get it? I guess I want to say a layout of the house.
[00:23:37] Speaker B: I mean, yeah.
[00:23:38] Speaker A: I don't know. Like, to me, that, like. And then also, I guess you told me this backstory before.
[00:23:44] Speaker B: This is true. I did.
[00:23:46] Speaker A: Like, he's trying to cheat on his wife.
[00:23:49] Speaker B: And it makes you wonder if the.
The investigators, like, found something along those lines.
[00:23:58] Speaker A: Right? Like, did. They knew it was. Or somebody came forward and said, hey, I was having an affair with him. Like, and he was telling me he was going to leave as well.
I'm going to go down a rabbit hole. But, you know, divorce is a sin. And if you are a minister, you're no longer going to be a minister if you get divorced. But a widower is free to move on. I mean, if we're going to go conspiracy theories. And that could have been his way out, thinking he wasn't going to get caught.
[00:24:28] Speaker B: And I will say this, it makes it worse in looking at him possibly being guilty for this. And like I said, I want to follow it because I want to know more, too.
I'm interested. So, you know, keep listening. But I don't know who the text was to, but apparently. And I'm seeing multiple places, so I didn't make this up in my head.
There was a text that read from his phone to someone undisclosed that said, it's almost done.
[00:24:56] Speaker A: Dude killed his wife.
I feel sorry for hot dogs.
[00:25:01] Speaker B: I'm not laughing at what has happened, just Lauren's response and how she worded it.
He.
[00:25:08] Speaker A: He did. I felt like. But knowing what I knew, too, with you, given the page part of it. And I will say, I think people do hit on each other at the gym and maybe don't mean anything by it, but don't. I mean, like, it's one thing if he went over there and said, oh, you're doing some awesome squats or something. But to say I don't have a wife and kids.
[00:25:30] Speaker B: So, yeah, so those are my two stories to share today.
But yeah, sometimes the stories just come to you. You don't have to go out searching for them. So follow us. Like I said, I'm gonna keep looking at the Caleb Flynn story as I get new, as I see new details come out and information, I'll definitely fill you in. But yeah, definitely curious to see where that goes. And I don't know if I have any more updates on the condom guy.
[00:26:01] Speaker A: I will, I don't know a name.
[00:26:05] Speaker B: Hot dog.
[00:26:08] Speaker A: He was upset that we're teetering over Hot Dog.
If you're out there, Hot dog Guy, just know that I'm here for you. I get it.
[00:26:19] Speaker B: And if you want this, this story from its source, Ali Benevento on Tick Tock. Like I said, she's a local attorney here in Richland.
She's great. So please go follow her Tick Tock. I'm sure she'll update us on any more interesting stories. Although I. Oh, she did say the judge kept a straight face the whole time. And she said, I think she was like the defense bar and others in the courtroom could not hold it together as well. But she did have, she did say that it was Judge C. Taylor. I think Christopher Taylor was the judge that day. And she said he very well kept a straight face. Very good decorum for him.
[00:27:00] Speaker A: Allegations.
[00:27:03] Speaker B: So that's our episode for today.
Follow us. Like Lauren said, we're gonna cover the America's Next Top Model series that just came out and we'll see where we go from there.
[00:27:17] Speaker A: Have a good week.
[00:27:19] Speaker B: Bye.
