Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:07] Speaker B: And I'm Lauren and welcome to another.
[00:00:09] Speaker A: Episode of the Llamas podcast.
[00:00:12] Speaker B: And so today we're kicking off Spooky October and we are gonna do some different type cases that just deal with Halloween type stuff and those things. And so I have a question for Lacey and this is just something. As we're coming up on Halloween season, my kids are gonna go trick or treating around the neighborhood. So how does this work in a trespass world? If we go up to the door and like not trick or treat, but like this lady, like did not want us, can we get arrested for trip for trespassing and stuff on Halloween? Like, what's so for that?
[00:00:50] Speaker A: So you cannot unless there's notice. So if there is a do not trespass sign and then, I mean, I don't think the cops are realistically going to arrest you and kids, right?
They'd probably just say leave. And honestly, if you left, they probably won't think nothing else of it, especially on Halloween night. But if we just look purely at the statute for trespass, there has to be a notice. So, for example, like, I've represented many, many, many shoplifting clients before, and a lot of times they are trespassed from where they are accused of shoplifting.
And so, like, if I represented a client that shoplifted at Walmart, a lot of times they will trespass them from their Walmart. But there's a notice, right? So it's like, hey, here's your ticket for shoplifting, or we're arresting you for shoplifting and taking you to jail. There's also a notice saying like, you're not allowed back at that Walmart. And then even if the, the shoplifting case is dismissed, there's still trespass because the trespass is a civil notice. But if you don't abide by that notice, then that is a crime. So there has to be a notice given for trespass. I actually want to trespass bench trial about a month or two ago.
And the issue was that, you know, my client had lived at this property.
There really wasn't a notice because she had previously lived there. So there was, you know, the judge found reasonable doubt that, you know, there's trespass and notice since they had previously lived there and had belongings there. So she found my client not guilty. So. So yeah, so there is a notice requirement for trespassing. So if you just walk with somebody's property and they're like, get off. Well, there's your notice to get off as long as you get off their property and leave you're fine.
[00:02:39] Speaker B: So taking it a step further, if we have a crazy person sitting there, open the door and shoot somebody for coming on their property, we went crazy here.
Could they claim self defense at that point?
[00:02:52] Speaker A: No. You, you have to meet, you have to meet with the force given and there has to be force. Right? So you, you can't just shoot somebody for coming on your property. You don't have that. You can defend yourself. You, you don't have the right to defense of property. So if you remember back in law.
[00:03:11] Speaker B: School doctrine, like you can protect your house but not unreasonably so.
[00:03:16] Speaker A: Right, correct. So like there's a case that we learned back in law school, what happened was, is this man's like barn or something kept getting broken into. So he put like a spring gun in this barn. So he's not living in the barn. He's not, he's not in the barn. If somebody breaks into the barn, he's not going to harm anybody. But the people broke in to get shot and they said that was not self defense. You can't do that because one, that force is way greater and deadly. That's not what's happening. So the force isn't equal.
And two, like at that point you're just defending a property, you're not defending yourself. So yeah, so that would not, they could not claim self defense unless they said that, you know, you were making threats and had like a firearm on you.
You know, then of course that would be their statement.
[00:04:07] Speaker B: But yeah, I feel like this could lead down into like a deep rabbit hole of stuff. But say I'm dressed up in my like Michael Myers costume, holding my fake knife. Is that enough to possibly be like, if you shoot me then like I.
[00:04:26] Speaker A: Just think on Halloween it's just not gonna fly because most people should know that there are costumes and stuff. But could I see it in the world we live in? I could see it. You know, people have said be careful with certain costumes and things. Like I think we saw some costumes last year and part of the costume was having a firearm. I don't think that's, that's safe. You know, I think we have to, we should use caution, especially with everything going in our world with our costumes.
It's probably not a good thing to, if you are Michael Myers, to carry your knife, people will know who you are just based on your dress. You don't need the additional prop. Also, we have to think there's small kids that are going to be trick or treating as well. Maybe if it's A Halloween like party. Like a party that's adults only and it's fake and there's gonna be bouncers to check. Sure, maybe that's an exception. But I think we as parents or adults and of kids, let's be smart when using those things.
Somebody could see it as a threat. We don't, we don't know and be scared and think that it's real. What if they've been attacked before and just extra, extra scared, you know, we don't know all of the dynamics in play. So, I mean, it's possible if they think your knife is real, they think you're coming after them, they may have.
It may not be a defense that's going to be winnable. Right. Sometimes you have a defense, but it doesn't make it winnable. It doesn't make you immune from prosecution. So I think if you're at your house and somebody's coming with a weapon, you know, definitely just don't open your door on Halloween. Look out the ring camera. And if you see somebody with a weapon and you don't know if it's a prop or not, just don't answer the door. Right. That would be the smart thing to do because if things escalated for you, but it really was just a prop, you could see yourself being arrested for that and you don't want that to happen. And I think we as people that are going out trick or treating with our kids or your, you know, teenagers are going without you or something. You know, let's just all be smart and protect each other and have a good time.
[00:06:41] Speaker B: Well, my kids are going as Winnie the Pooh and Piglet and the legit Winnie the Pooh and Piglet, not the Winnie the Pooh from the horror movie.
So we should be completely safe as we're just going as anyways. Now, if you're doing as Winnie the Pooh from the horror movie, that could be a completely different. Yeah, but I think we'll be fine.
[00:07:00] Speaker A: We are going to be Lilo and Stitch. So I am Lilo, Mac is Stitch and Luke is Jumba, the one that created Stitch. That alien. Shawna's gonna be the one eyed alien, and Mark is going to be Cobra Bubbles.
[00:07:15] Speaker B: We did Lilo instead. Well, me, I was Lilo last year and Wes was Stitch and Maddie was Moana. So we had our Polynesian theme going on, but Kylie had to be Tinkerbell. But this year they wanted to be together and be Lilo and Stitch. I have an Eeyore T shirt and Wes has a rabbit T. Shirt.
[00:07:34] Speaker A: I love family costumes. It's my favorite thing to do. And now that Sean lives here, you know, we, we go all out. He is going to be the one eyed alien with the bob.
When he's dressed up as, as a human, he's very specific on what part of the movie he wanted to be that alien.
So we'll see how it turned. I'm excited. So I've already got two of our costumes. I gotta get two more.
[00:08:00] Speaker B: Well, kind of switching gears with some of the spooky stuff. Today we're talking about the Amityville horror case.
And so I don't know how many of you have watched the movies. I don't know if Lacey, if you've even watched the movie.
[00:08:12] Speaker A: I used to love scary movies. I do not watch them anymore. They give me anxiety. I don't enjoy them.
It used to be my thing. And Sean gets frustrated because I refuse to watch anything now. So no, I didn't watch it. I don't plan to. I am not gonna.
I can't. I still can't.
[00:08:31] Speaker B: Blake, you didn't watch it. So like the original one came out and I think the 70s green movies.
[00:08:37] Speaker A: Texas Chainsaw, I've seen all those. Will I re watch them? No.
[00:08:42] Speaker B: A horror movie Scream is like a fun movie.
[00:08:45] Speaker A: That is a horror movie to me. It gives me anxiety and stresses me out. I will not watch it.
[00:08:50] Speaker B: Boof of horror movies.
[00:08:53] Speaker A: I didn't watch Nightmare on Elm street anymore.
[00:08:56] Speaker B: Are you going to watch the new scary movie when it comes out?
[00:09:00] Speaker A: What new scary movie?
[00:09:02] Speaker B: Scary Movie 6. It's Got Anna Ferris and Marlon Wayne's.
[00:09:07] Speaker A: It's the funny version.
It's making fun of it.
[00:09:11] Speaker B: Yeah, it's the way you know the people that did White chicks.
[00:09:17] Speaker A: I could maybe watch that. But I am not watching any popping up scary movies anymore. I have, I'm. This is my retirement announcement from those films.
[00:09:28] Speaker B: Well, the Amityville Horror, the remake of it came out when we were juniors in high school. I remember going to the theaters and Roshon was with me and I'm pretty sure Sean was with us too. It was probably, I think me, Michelle, Rashon, Sean and Candy. Because I don't know if you remember this. Candy loves horror movies and so does Michelle. I don't know if they still do to this day or if they're in retirement like you, but back in the day they used to love a good horror movie. And I will say I will watch horror. I do not watch snake movies.
I would rather see somebody be cut up than See a snake.
[00:10:04] Speaker A: So, like, do you mean, like actual snake, or is that, like. Okay, I get what you're saying now. That. But okay. Like snakes on a plane. You're not watching.
[00:10:13] Speaker B: I'm not watching Anaconda Nothing. Which I want to watch the one that's coming out with Jack Black and Paul Rudd. But anyways, in Amityville Horror, the whole premise is actually based off a true story.
And so this is kind of like one of those times where legal really does cross into spooky. So if you've seen the movies, the most recent one had Ryan Reynolds in it, which is probably one of the reasons Sean and Ran wanted to see it as well.
[00:10:40] Speaker A: We just didn't know then.
[00:10:45] Speaker B: Okay.
But anyways, so in this, like, the whole house, like, they buy this house, they go in and, like, weird stuff starts happening and pretty much.
[00:10:57] Speaker A: And where is this at?
Like, is it the. In the United States?
[00:11:01] Speaker B: Yeah, it's like, in Connecticut.
[00:11:03] Speaker A: Connecticut, Okay. I thought it was the Northeast, but I wasn't sure.
[00:11:07] Speaker B: Let's see. A Dutch colonial residence on Long Island, New York.
[00:11:13] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:11:14] Speaker B: And so back in this situation is like, a mass murder had happened in this house.
Like, a guy goes crazy and kills all the people.
And so the reason supposedly he goes crazy is the house is possessed.
That there's like a demonic portal or something in there. Like, but anyways, like, the house is telling him to kill people, so the house is possessed.
And so this actually came up.
Let me actually get the case name.
There is an actual case on this, and it came up in not a horror situation, but in a real estate situation.
So here's the issue. Like, this house, there's been a mass murder committed in this house. It's because he says the house is possessed, all this stuff. So this house later is getting sold, and the new buyers come in, and I think they think freaky stuff is happening too.
And so kind of this is where it comes from. So in a real estate, as we've all sold houses before, bought houses, there's disclosures you have to list on a house.
And so the question of law was, do you have to disclose if your house is haunted?
[00:12:33] Speaker A: I thought you were gonna go somewhere different with that. Do you have to disclose if somebody has been murdered in the house?
[00:12:39] Speaker B: I think you actually do.
[00:12:41] Speaker A: Do you? Do you. Is it like. Like, you have to tell them or you have to be honest if they ask?
Yeah, we should have had Amanda on here, Wilson's mama.
[00:12:56] Speaker B: Yeah, we should have had a realtor. But then sometimes I probably haven't so if somebody died in your house, you don't always have to tell them that.
So, like, obviously, like, if somebody dies in order. Like, my husband's grandma passed away in her bed at home.
Causes. She's 90 years old. She actually died on her 90th birthday.
So in California, though, you do have to tell people if somebody even just died in the home based on normal natural causes.
But most states do require you to tell if there was a homicide or a suicide that happened.
And then Georgia does not require you to actually volunteer this information unless a potential buyer asks. But if a potential buyer asks, you have to. So it kind of how you have to disclose. But in seeing this. Yes. So in New York, where this happened, the amityville horror case, a seller does not have to disclose death or a crime, but may need to disclose publicly known paranormal activity.
So in this case, yes, there was a lawsuit.
Well, I think everybody in the whole community, you all know people know when houses are haunted. Like, you know which houses, but not always.
[00:14:24] Speaker A: I mean, if you think that something's gone on in your house before, but you don't really tell many people about it, it's not gonna be publicly known. Like, I get it with this house. It was so much. Everybody knew about it and knew what was going on, but do just find it interesting that they have. They put that in there. Like, it has to be publicly known. Not just something that you think because you lived there for a few years, but you really didn't tell a lot of people. Like, it has to be publicly known.
That has be that threshold for it to be disclosed?
[00:14:53] Speaker B: Well, pretty much. In this case, the Danyville horror case, it was sued and went to, I guess the court of appeals or the supreme court.
And because of all the paranormal activity, because, like, this is why this man murdered these people, the new people thought stuff was happening pretty much in this situation. The court ruled, as a matter of law, you have to disclose if your house is haunted.
So that is like a disclosure that if you re. I think the issue is if you reasonably believe your house is haunted, you need to disclose it. So, like, if something weird happened one time, I don't know, but, like, if you see a pattern of events happening, you're supposed to disclose if your house is haunted.
And I think that's just a unique case because, you know, you hear when we're talking about Amityville horror and stuff, you're thinking it's gonna go into, like, some weird criminal area or anything. But no, it came up in real estate Law as we have to disclose as a matter of law if our house is haunted. I don't think South Carolina has any case law on that, But I don't know. I mean, there might be some houses down in Charleston. But we did actually read this case in Property, my first year of law school, and I did not realize that. I mean, I know they sell Amityville horrors based on a true story, but they say a lot of horror movies are based on true stories.
So I wasn't like buying into it. And then I found out in 1991 there was a true case on the Amityville Horror house that they had to disclose.
[00:16:29] Speaker A: That's interesting.
[00:16:33] Speaker B: So I guess the issue is now if you're in a house like, and you do have weird things happen, you could actually be sued because you didn't disclose this. And it could really. I'm not sure what all the remedies are, but I didn't want to give you the name of the web. The case is Lutz versus Weber.
[00:16:56] Speaker A: And.
[00:16:56] Speaker B: Pretty much it is based on Amityville Horror, which states that you have to disclose. And I guess there's a lot of, like, gray area in that is what is actually, you know, haunted, what's not. But I think because the murders and stuff were so public, right. They had to. Now, I don't know if you just see a ghost in your house, if you 100% have to tail, I would.
[00:17:20] Speaker A: Think there would have to be some kind of shock value, right? Like, and that's why they put the publicly known part in there. I would think, like, if you think you saw a ghost a couple times and you told your girl group about it, I just don't think that's gonna arise to the level that the courts are talking about here. I think like you were saying, with the murders and stuff and it being well known, there has to be that. That shock value. And if you're so shocked by what happened in that home, then it should be disclose closed.
[00:17:52] Speaker B: And I guess, okay, I don't know, for a lot of you, you probably do not believe in ghosts and all that type stuff. I do. So we're gonna say this like it. I guess sometimes it's gonna depend on is the ghost attached to you or is the ghost attached to the property? Because if it's your ghost, it's coming with you. So why should I have to disclose, right? Somebody that's connected to me because they're going to come with me.
And now I don't know how all this works in the paranormal. World. I don't know if ghosts are only given rain to be in certain areas.
[00:18:24] Speaker A: Or not.
[00:18:26] Speaker B: But I truly believe there are ghosts out there. So now do I believe there's demonic demons that are opening portals to hell? Probably not.
But like, yes, I do believe there's ghosts and spirits and all that stuff there.
So I don't know. Like, I guess another question is somebody that is listening to this May could give some answers on this. I will not name her name, but she may have a ghost in her house and she may have had a priest come out and do an exorcism. So at this point, not an exorcism, but like spray, holy water, all that type stuff. Does she have to disclose that or not? I'm not naming a name because I don't want to get her in trouble if she goes to sell her house.
I'll tell you when we get off. Okay, but like, if you had, if you have knowingly had somebody squirt holy water in your house, somebody that listens.
[00:19:25] Speaker A: To this podcast often, it's not Aaron.
[00:19:29] Speaker B: She doesn't have a ghost.
[00:19:30] Speaker A: I am not thinking Aaron.
[00:19:36] Speaker B: But the issue is that they have to disclose and I don't know. I don't know because they have had somebody come and do the. And I will say in our office, we have a ghost. It's a little boy. We had somebody come out here.
She's actually somebody we went to school with. Ladies. Her name's Sherry, but she's a holistic doctor and she's like a shaman and all this stuff. So we had her come out here and she staged our office and she told us we have a little boy here. And I truly believe it. I don't know why we have a little boy in the law office, but we do.
[00:20:08] Speaker A: And he's red headed, which is kind of interesting because you remember when you saw that medium.
[00:20:16] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:20:17] Speaker A: She said you were gonna have a little boy.
[00:20:20] Speaker B: He wouldn't be redheaded, but this boy.
[00:20:26] Speaker A: I don't think you're having more children. Like, I mean, I would be shocked if you did, but from what I know, like, maybe that, like she envisioned you having a boy, but maybe it's not like your biological boy. She just saw that you were gonna have a boy and. And now you know, you have a little boy living in your office. It kind of ties together.
[00:20:42] Speaker B: She told me I was gonna get pregnant at 38.
[00:20:46] Speaker A: Never mind. I guess we'll have to. Oh, we're close.
[00:20:50] Speaker B: I know.
[00:20:50] Speaker A: We'll find out in the next two years.
[00:20:53] Speaker B: We're hoping not though. But what's crazy is she did okay, so obviously I believe in all this stuff. I believe that there is.
I'm very a religious person, so I do believe in heaven and hell and all that stuff. But I don't think heaven is as far away as what we think it.
I also do not think that they can't contact us. And I also don't think there's this very. I'm not, I guess like I am, I'm not Catholic, but in some ways I do believe in like the purgatory type land and those type things. So it's not as far away. So yes, I did see a medium one time and they told me that I was going to get pregnant at 38 with a little boy and his name was going to be Zachary, which was weird because Zach is Wes's dog that passed away's name.
[00:21:40] Speaker A: Interesting.
Mom's just sitting here wondering if maybe she got some wires crossed and you already have your little boy that he's actually just a ghost in your office.
[00:21:52] Speaker B: Well, she also told him my mother in law was telling me telling her the name Zachary. So maybe she's got it confused about a dog.
Maybe she was telling me the dog was in heaven.
Maybe.
[00:22:04] Speaker A: But if you get pregnant at 38, we'll let our listeners know that the medium was right and we'll have to plug her at that point.
[00:22:11] Speaker B: Maybe she'll come on and talk. But let's hope that one doesn't play out. But I'm curious out there. Do y'. All, did you ever realize you were gonna tell the listeners? So if you've ever had something spooky happen in your house, are you nervous about. You're gonna have to disclose this now. Do you think like this could impact things? But also do you believe in this of or do you think it's just total crap?
[00:22:33] Speaker A: So this is probably. So I grew up in a trailer, y'. All.
[00:22:37] Speaker B: So I was real poor.
[00:22:38] Speaker A: And it was a single wide trailer. Well, when I got to high school, we upgraded, we got the double wide. So you know, we own the property. But you roll the single wide off and you roll the double wide on. Well, I had seen a ghost a couple of times in my single wide trailer. And so I remember we were getting the double wide. I didn't know if the ghost would roll away with the single wide trailer or not.
Well, what. I never saw it again though. So I don't know. I don't know if that ghost was tied to the trailer or because I Didn't know. It's like, well, will it stay with the trailer or is it with us or the land? Like, is it gonna like roll into.
[00:23:20] Speaker B: That single wide was its home and it didn't want to upgrade.
[00:23:23] Speaker A: I never saw it again though. But I saw it several times as a kid in the single wide. I always.
Mom's bedroom.
[00:23:30] Speaker B: What was it a ghost? Was it a man?
[00:23:33] Speaker A: It. It was male energy.
Yeah.
But, yeah, that's the creepiest thing I personally have seen. Now, my nanny's house, which my nanny is my best friend's grandma, but she took me in as her own. But there are lots of things at her house. So we were told never to go to the attic because there were ghosts in there.
And she, Krista said that her uncles had like slept there at night before and they've left recorders on and you could hear things and talking cabinets and drawers opening and closing.
So there's been several things of paranormal activity at my nanny's house, more so than at my single Y trailer.
[00:24:23] Speaker B: Have you ever thought your dogs noticed stuff like.
[00:24:28] Speaker A: Not with paranormal activity? No.
[00:24:32] Speaker B: Well, I think my dogs have.
[00:24:33] Speaker A: They're intuitive with things that go along that go on with me and the kids for sure and Mark.
[00:24:42] Speaker B: But not dogs can notice more. Like there was this time Harvey was up dancing outside at night and he was like twirling in circles and stuff. And my dad, this was when I lived at home, but I think I was at college at the time. So my dad saw all this. He said it was the weirdest thing he's ever seen. And it was like Harvey was playing with somebody that wasn't there. So I definitely think like dogs and younger kids tend to be more open to it. And I think the issue is as adults, we start to close ourselves off.
[00:25:15] Speaker A: I will say this so as y' all know, Luke is my oldest. He has down syndrome. So he is delayed. It's taken him a while to know who people are. At this point he does. Like, he can name all of his cousins and if one cousin's coming, he'll ask about the other two. But that is a recent development in the past year. Right. So we moved into our new house. It was 2022, so three years ago, so he was four. He did not at that point could name every family member. But we were in his bedroom and he saw a picture of my father in law who passed away in 2011. So never met Luke, never saw me and Mark get married. Like we don't really talk about him too, too much, honestly. I don't know that Luke. We haven't talked to Luke about him. Like we've mentioned Luke's middle name is from him. But like Luke wouldn't comprehend that even today.
But he saw a picture because we have a picture of him in Luke's room and always have. And he looked and he said, pop, pop.
And I like froze. And I remember like grabbing my phone and I was like, who did you say that was?
And he said it again on my phone and I, you know, sent it to Mark and my mother in law. But it was just the craziest thing. And so I definitely feel like he has met my father in law.
Like I am, I am firmly convinced in that.
[00:26:40] Speaker B: Well, we would love to hear if you all have any stories like that or nice sweet paranormal things or even if you got some creepy stuff that you want to tell us, we would love to hear it. And maybe we can talk about those in the rest of October. And we are going to continue our spooky trends.
[00:26:57] Speaker A: All right, I'll see you next week.
[00:26:59] Speaker B: Bye.
[00:27:00] Speaker A: Bye.
