Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
And I'm Lauren, and welcome to another.
[00:00:09] Speaker B: Episode of the Llamas podcast.
[00:00:11] Speaker A: So today we're kind of, you know, we just finished up Halloween, finish up spooky season. But last week there was that new documentary that dropped on Eileen Warnos. And we know this Lacey's favorite, favorite serial killer.
So we are going to kind of talk about that because there were some legal aspects that, you know, hadn't really been covered before or we hadn't really talked about a lot that I think impacted the case. So we're going to dive into that today. But Lacey has a question today.
[00:00:41] Speaker B: I do. It's very important.
Have you decorated for Christmas? How do you feel about decorating for Christmas before Thanksgiving?
[00:00:49] Speaker A: I'm all for it. So my kids put up. They have a little pink tree they decorated.
We did some stuff on the front porch. We did this all Saturday, November 1st, and Sunday, November 2nd.
We brought. We have a fake tree. My husband has too much aloe. I always grew up with a real tree, and I miss having a real tree. And if I had a real tree, I would not buy one this early. Obviously it's gonna catch on fire or whatever, but I didn't even think about that.
[00:01:17] Speaker B: So I guess with a real tree, you can't really decorate as early.
[00:01:20] Speaker A: You can do, like, other stuff, but obviously the tree with real trees, even if you water them and do everything, they start to dry out and they become so much more of a fire risk.
I miss the real tree, but my husband has really bad allergies. So does my daughter. So we have a fake tree. So we went ahead and brought that in. I am for you. Do you. If you want to decorate before Christmas, like, before Thanksgiving, I think it's completely fair. I think if it brings you joy.
[00:01:48] Speaker B: Do you.
[00:01:48] Speaker A: If you're one of those, that's like, no, I don't do it till after Thanksgiving. That's cool.
[00:01:53] Speaker B: You do you.
[00:01:53] Speaker A: But don't judge anybody for what they want to do.
[00:01:56] Speaker B: That's how I feel. So I am very. Like, I love Thanksgiving, fall season.
I love Christmas, too, but it just doesn't. Like, I don't feel Christmassy yet, and I typically don't until we're closer to to December. So for me, I don't care what other people do. It doesn't bother me if it brings them joy. But, like, I love still seeing the fall leaves and the pumpk pumpkins in. In my house, and I'm just not ready for Christmas. We usually decorate after Thanksgiving, and I love that. But I will Say Mac has already started asking about the Christmas tree, and we do fake trees. We've always done fake trees. Allergies. My mom, she grew up with real trees, but always had really bad allergies and it bothered her, so she always had a fake tree. So I'm just used to fake trees.
We do three trees in our house, so.
So, yeah, so we are after Thanksgiving. I just don't feel.
I don't feel like I. I can't go from Halloween to Christmas. But if some people can, if that makes you happy, like, do it. I don't get the hatred either way. But for me personally, my house, we. We decorate after Thanksgiving, but Max already starting to feel a little bit more Christmassy than I do. So we'll see. But if. If he starts getting in the Christmas spirit, it's gonna be hard to tell him. Tell him no, because like I said, I don't. I don't judge. If that's how he feels, that's how he feels. So we'll see. We'll see what happens.
[00:03:24] Speaker A: I used to be don't decorate till after Thanksgiving person.
But I will say probably in the last. I don't know. I'll say probably.
I used to put up a tree in college, in law school, and so, like, we would get out of school, like, December 13th and then go home. So, like, I didn't get to enjoy that tree I put up. So I remember one time in law school, it was like Veterans Day weekend, and I put up the tree and I just enjoyed seeing it. I enjoyed having it. It brings me happiness. I watched a Christmas movie last night.
My husband's birthday is right at Thanksgiving, so we will take a pause from Christmas and celebrate his birthday. We obviously celebrate Thanksgiving, but, like, Thanksgiving to me is.
I don't know, like. I don't know. It's just like a day to eat. I'm always thankful for my family, right?
[00:04:17] Speaker B: Yeah. We're not even doing Thanksgiving all together this year. My sister wanted to stay home. And when I mentioned to Mark, it's like, that sounds really nice because we are always traveling for all holidays. Me and my husband are the ones on both sides of the family, the only ones that moved away.
So we're always having to travel.
We did stop traveling to both places, Rare and Union, several years ago. So we just go to Union. But once my sister was like, I gotta be at work at 5am the day before, 5am the day after. It's just a lot. I know it's not far, but she said it was nice for her to stay home last year when we were at the Macy's Day parade, so I decided, I was like, well, we'll just stay home and we'll get together for Christmas. So I'm. I'm cooking all of Thanksgiving. I'm so excited.
I'm excited to stay home. Me and my husband are the biggest football fans in our whole family. So, like, this will be only the second year we've actually been able to be home and watch all the games and, like, have that kind of atmosphere. And Sean's coming, and he's gonna help me cook the day before, and he's gonna cook a couple dishes at his house that day. So I'm excited. I feel like it's maybe the start of some new traditions, you know, because we always go to my mom's. But I've all. Like, when I bought my house, it's got a dining room table. I have a big dining room.
I have a separate kitchen. Like, I envisioned me hosting Thanksgiving because I cook half the dishes. But none of my family wants to travel. And so you know what? I'm just kind of like, if they don't want to come to me, like, I'll just have it at my house and do myself because it just makes sense. And if they don't want to come, that's fine. They want to celebrate in their home, that's fine. But I'm excited to stay in my house and cook.
[00:05:56] Speaker A: I obviously like to eat. If you watch us, I'm not skinny. I do like to eat, but Thanksgiving food is not my thing. Like, I don't. Dressing is disgusting to me.
I only eat macaroni if it's macaroni pie and burnt. I don't like in a crock pot macaroni. Like, I'm very particular.
So, like, Thanksgiving food. I also don't like to cook. I'm not one of those millennials is into my cooking phase.
[00:06:24] Speaker B: For sure.
[00:06:25] Speaker A: I cook to survive and to be cheap.
So to me, I guess, thanks. My mom will cook.
I don't mind donating money and I don't mind, like, purchasing stuff, but I like to bake. I will say I enjoy baking, but cooking, not my thing.
Literally could care less about things. Now, my husband enjoys good Thanksgiving food, but my husband, I mean, like, if I told him we weren't having Thanksgiving, we're just gonna have chicken wings, he would be just as excited.
[00:06:54] Speaker B: So that'd be so sad for us.
[00:06:57] Speaker A: It's not a big deal. And like, we have the same food at Christmas and I Just, it's not my thing, so I would much rather just Christmas. You get more feeling, I guess.
[00:07:07] Speaker B: Yeah. See, I love Thanksgiving food. I love Thanksgiving meal. We don't do it at Christmas anymore, so it's the one time to do it. So that's probably the difference. Why you like to decorate now and I like to hold office because I do just love that and love these recipes. Like, I make certain dishes of my nanny and I don't know, it's just very.
[00:07:28] Speaker A: I. I just.
[00:07:29] Speaker B: I just like it. It's just fun. So I'm excited. I'm also hosting Friendsgiving. I'm not making the same thing. I'm doing like an Italian think Vinnie's mom on Jersey Shore, Paula spread. That's what I'm doing. But I'm hosting Friendsgiving and cooking everything from scratch as well as Thanksgiving. So I'm definitely in. In my cooking era. But anyways, switching gears to Ali Warnos and a good lead into that is a reminder that she did not have a last meal. She only had black coffee.
So you watched the Netflix thing. Is she your favorite serial killer now too? Have you come over to my side or what are your thoughts?
[00:08:05] Speaker A: I mean, I don't know if I'm ever gonna say I have a favorite serial killer, but I definitely see her in a different light.
[00:08:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:13] Speaker A: So, like, I will say just in general, I mentioned it to my co workers that I was watching this documentary, and they're like, who is she? And I was like, the woman serial killer. So I will say she does not have the notoriety that I feel like a lot of these men serial killers do, which is kind of crazy because she is only, what, the third one in Florida? She is the third person in Florida to get the third woman in Florida to get the death penalty. So I think it's kind of crazy. And overall, she's one of the only women serial killers we've had in, like, modern day.
[00:08:48] Speaker B: Right.
[00:08:49] Speaker A: I just don't think she overall got the notoriety.
And is it because she's a woman? Like, do we just not like women serial killers? I mean.
[00:09:00] Speaker B: Yeah, well, like her. Her victims were quite different.
I mean, when you look at, like, Ted Bundy, we've talked about him, and he is going after people in. In college and, you know, women just from his car. And with Eileen Warnos, I don't think there's as much empathy in for the victims. And I'm not saying that that's okay, but I just. With her, she was in sex work, and these were people that were Picking her up for work.
And so I just think in this society there was not as much empathy for these men as the victims like Ted Bundy. And that's just, that's just fact, you know. And that's just how people felt. And I think that is why that she's not as notorious is because there was not this extreme shock value and upset at her killing John's that were picking her up for sex work, you know.
[00:10:04] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that played into it. Yeah. Because like for one we're not like oh, it was this cute little college girl that got killed. Also she is ugly. I don't mean that mean. But she is not what we look at. Like I feel like she had been like a bombshell like Pamela Anderson and Baywatch and she was killing people. We would have that. She is not an attractive woman. I do not say that to be mean in any sense of the word, like on body types. But for.
I will say the thing that really got me and this is what I kind of wanted to get your opinion on from a criminal perspective for one. I hate the prosecutor in that case. Yes. He was so sexist and disgusting and condescending. He was like had a God complex. And this was gonna get him up in Florida politics. This was getting, you know, Governor Bush to notice him kind of thing. And I just, I.
He rubbed me the wrong way. And I get there's a dynamic between prosecutors but the fact this is what I didn't like. The first man she killed, that is who she went on trial for, had been in prison for assault for 10 years and rape. And he said, oh well I didn't know that. And then I love the part where that journalist was like it took me five minutes to find this. So I guess from your perspective, could that have been grounds for a mistrial? Because that didn't get to come in and he. I feel he knew it and hit it.
[00:11:29] Speaker B: I believe so because I think it would be a Brady violation.
So Brady violation can be anything that is within the state's control. And an incident report from that would have been with their control. And I think there's excavatory value to that because it gives her credibility in saying what happened. Because we don't know the whole facts of that assault. But what if they matched what she said happened? What if he had an Emma. Right. They something they did the previous time was exactly something she said. That's going to give her credibility for her self defense case. Absolutely.
If it doesn't come in as evidence for the guilt or innocence phase. It absolutely comes in to give to a jury when determining the death sentence, 1 million percent. So I think for sure that could have gotten her a new trial on that charge.
And that was the first one, like you said. And like some of the other people were saying, I think if that really did happen, if what she's saying is true, and I think there's credibility to what she said in that case. I think the trauma from that incident carried over into the other situations. I don't necessarily think every single one of them was trying to rape her, but I do believe maybe something happened in those encounters and she got scared again. And it just. That. That fear just took over, which is completely different from plotting and planning and targeting victims like Ted Bundy.
[00:12:57] Speaker A: I do think, like, looking at her after that documentary, like, I don't think she was a serial killer in the sense of, like, yes, she was. She killed a lot of people, but not in this sense, I don't think. And no, I don't think she probably could ever be restored because she was so warped mentally. But I definitely do not think she had, like, that serial killer gene of, I need to kill, I need to kill. Like, killing's fun. I think it was. So when you watch the documentary, she was molested, raped as a child. She had a terrible upbringing. She started sex work at 16. She said she'd been raped multiple times. And so I think there was just such trauma in her that, like, I do probably think that one guy raped her. Now, she did say, even at, like, the death, even after she was given the death penalty, she said, the only thing I lied about with that was sodomy. He did not commit sodomy on me, but he did rape me. But she said she just kept saying sodomy to keep her story straight. She had nothing to lose at this point. She wanted to die. She was ready. So I feel like in that side of things, she did was raped. And I feel like probably the next man, whether he raped her or not, there was that trauma of being raped that she may not even remember what she does. Just blacks out and kills him. I 100% see her differently than Ted Bundy, who just, like, killed people for the fun of it. And I think the second biggest thing from the legal perspective on that case was the judge had to recuse herself. And normally, so just so y' all know, typically the judge will recuse themselves on their own. Like, I've had cases where, like, a judge has recused herself from my case because the opposing attorney and her husband own a building together. I don't think she had to, but she does it just to be precautionary. So most of the time, if a judge feels that they are going to be in any way biased, they will recuse themselves. But in this case, she didn't feel she was going to be biased or anything. The state made her recuse herself and wouldn't. And she said, I can't tell you the reason. Did that shock you?
[00:15:08] Speaker B: The reason was because she was a female. It was complete sexism.
Yeah. They said I'm I that wholeheartedly would. I mean, they might have given a BS Reason.
Reason. I have quotation marks for those that are just listening. But no, I do. Like she said it was because they knew I would give her a fair trial and they didn't care to give her a fair trial. And that's one thing I think we have gotten better about is our view of sex workers.
Because I think then like that how that prosecutor was. I think that's how a lot of people were in being so hateful towards people and sex work and stuff. Whereas now I think it's more empathy.
[00:15:52] Speaker A: Right.
[00:15:52] Speaker B: I think. I think some women are very in tune with their sexuality. They choose to be an escort and want to do these things. And then there's also. And it's mainly women. There's most there. There are also still so many women who are just in terrible positions, whether it's with drugs or they've ended up homeless. And it's a last resort. And I think there's a big difference in a woman just wanting to embrace herself in her body and choosing to do this because they want to and somebody feeling like they have no other option.
And I think as a society for the latter, we have a lot more empathy for sex workers who feel like this is what they have to do to make a living because they're just not in a good place in life. And that's where Eileen was at.
I don't think she set out to say, I'm embracing this. I. I love this. Like, this is what I'm choosing to do for work, because this is what I want to do. I think it very much was.
I left home because it wasn't a good environment. At 14, 15 years old, found herself on the streets and needed a way to pay for food, pay for something to drink and make. Make money. And this is what she. She turned to. And so I think just back then you didn't care either way. You know, these. It was just if you were in sex work, you were just the scum of the earth. And they didn't care that she got a fair trial. They didn't want her to get a fair trial. She was, in their opinion, just the scum of the earth. This nasty job that she did and didn't care. She got a fair trial and didn't believe her and didn't care to even see if she was credible or not. In looking at the alleged victim's past.
[00:17:29] Speaker A: Yeah, I think she was just like. I agree 100%. Like, she just was treated as a criminal herself.
So she wasn't worthy of life is pretty much how it made it seem. One other thing that I don't think we talked about before, and I didn't realize this, I will say I never really watched the Charlie Theon movie. So I don't.
[00:17:51] Speaker B: I don't.
[00:17:51] Speaker A: I just didn't watch it. But I did not realize she was adopted while she was in prison.
[00:17:57] Speaker B: I didn't. I didn't know that. And it's been so long since I watched the movie. I did watch the movie, but was when it first came out and, like, what, 15, 20 years ago?
[00:18:06] Speaker A: It's been, like, in the early 2000s. So, like, it's the old movie. It is.
[00:18:11] Speaker B: I. I'm pretty sure Sean got in trouble for watching that movie.
They got in trouble for watching a few things, but anyways.
[00:18:21] Speaker A: I don't know.
[00:18:22] Speaker B: If that was in the movie, but I. I did not know that as well. And honestly, like, I. I think she had the best intentions for wanting to adopt her. And I do think it helped Eileen, but I kind of feel like Eileen gave up the fight because she just was like, well, if I die, I'm just gonna meet Jesus. And. And I just don't think she should have got the death penalty. And I think, like, I wish she would have just fought for it to be overturned, but then she pled guilty to those other cases, and I just felt that was because of what the adopted parent told her to do. And so I just. I struggled with that part. Like, I don't know. I just don't like it. I don't like that the state killed her. And I feel like the adopted parents. Parent pushed her to just die.
[00:19:13] Speaker A: I don't know. I guess. I don't know really how I feel about that. I really didn't realize you could adopt somebody while they were in prison. So that was something. I mean, I guess if you were a child, but that was something different.
I don't know. Like, I don't Know if it was the adopted parent or the fact she killed all these men. She'd been through this trial. Was she tired? Because, like, the thing is. So she got one case overturned. They're gonna do it again. They're gonna do it again. And I don't know if it really was the adoptive parent that pushed her or the fact she loved that woman.
So Eileen ended up being. I don't know if she considered herself bisexual or a lesbian, but she had a woman lover, and she confessed to protect her lover pretty much. And so, I don't know, I think.
[00:20:00] Speaker B: Till the day she was involved. You think the girlfriend was involved at all?
[00:20:03] Speaker A: 100%. I did, too, because I. Eileen was not a big woman. Like, she was a skinny little thing. So, like, she's not like, she's like this big woman. I mean, I think she had the girlfriend help her, and I think, you know, maybe she thought if this went further, that was going to come out and she wanted to protect her girlfriend. I think she loved her. Whether a serial killer or person like that, honestly can feel love. She felt as close to love as she could in that situation. And yes, I think she took the sword, so that way her lover would never get in trouble. And so I think maybe that's sometimes why she didn't fight it as much too. Because of love. Because I feel like love makes people do some of the craziest things, and it does.
I am happy for her. Like, I'm a religious person, and I know you can think, like, she was such a terrible person. She believed she burned in hell. Like, I get that thought process. But also, if she had the life she had and then she repented and found, you know, Jesus, and Jesus, you repent and you accept him, you can go to heaven. So maybe she was okay dying because she had that real faith in her heart.
Well, and I don't think ever decide that was her.
[00:21:25] Speaker B: And some Christians may disagree, but I think some things are unforgivable. I'm sorry. No matter.
There are certain things I have heard in true crime podcast, in court, in my line of work, in. In certain situations, but I do think there are some things you. You just can't repent from that are so evil and terrible in this world.
I think they're rare, but I do think they exist. But in her case, I do think they're forgivable.
I think when you look at the situation as a whole, like you said, she's not the serial killer. That was just like a pre. Like pregging on the. The Most innocent lives, you know, it wasn't. It wasn't a child, these weren't kids and, and stuff. And there is a difference, you know, and sex work is.
I do believe she was right before many times. You're at such a higher risk of that when you do work in sex work.
And I'm sorry, I do think it is always not the greatest of men in these societies seeking out a sex worker.
So. Yes. And so I just don't.
[00:22:39] Speaker A: Especially in like her day and time, how they were picking her up. This is not.
I think it's. I'm not judging people, but I am. It's gross. Like, I'm a germaphobe. So the fact that like, from a.
[00:22:51] Speaker B: Germ perspective, that's the worst she judges.
[00:22:54] Speaker A: It is just disgusting. Like, it grosses me out. On the Bachelor, when you kiss like 20 dudes in one night or 20 women in one night, that's gross. But like, this isn't like some high end luxury service in Las Vegas. This was picking up a woman on the street. You're not getting.
This isn't Julia Roberts, Richard Gere situation.
[00:23:15] Speaker B: Like I said, like, I know in Vegas there's high end escorts that are choosing to do this for a living. And if that's what they want to do, more power to you.
I don't, I don't care. Like I said. But. And you said too. It doesn't bother me if that's what somebody wants to do, but there's a difference in somebody wanting to do it and feeling like they have no other option.
And her being on the side of the street at this time, she was feeling like there was no other option. This was not one of those situations that I just described.
[00:23:48] Speaker A: So.
[00:23:49] Speaker B: Yeah, so I just. Yeah, she's not the serial killer that they painted her ass. She's. She's not now. And I think that, like I said, that's why she's my favorite, because she really didn't.
Yes, she did bad. She should not have killed anybody. I'm not saying that. But it was not in the sense of we, Ted Bundy, the Golden State Killer, the people that we've already. She's on a different level.
[00:24:12] Speaker A: She was different. And she was definitely emotionally traumatized.
And when she passed away, like when they executed her, her best friend from growing up coming, I was like, honestly, that had me emotional because she's like, I didn't want to look back, but that was hard. And her best friend said, she had such a traumatic life. I mean.
[00:24:39] Speaker B: She took ownership. She said I killed these men and I deserve to be punished. That's another huge thing that we don't often see. She took accountability. She admitted she was wrong and wish she had done differently. Can explain why she did it, but also can acknowledge that she should be punished for it.
We don't ever see that. But she did. She took accountability wholeheartedly for what she did. And then was like, just go ahead and kill me so I can be with Jesus because I know I did wrong. So go ahead and I'll take my punishment.
[00:25:12] Speaker A: I do think that was really different in her. And I think she said this, like at the end when she already had the death penalty and she wasn't. She'd given up all appeals, everything.
She could have came clean and said, oh, he did not rape me. But she stood by the story that man raped her. So I truly believe now, whether the other six did or not, I don't know. But I 100% believe that first man raped her. And that could have if.
Yes. And if that evidence had been brought in the first trial, that could have been such a mitigate. I'm not saying she didn't deserve to live her life in jail.
[00:25:47] Speaker B: Right.
[00:25:47] Speaker A: But I think that could have changed it to where she would not have got the death penalty. But for a legal technicality mistrial situation with a terrible prosecutor and making sure.
[00:26:00] Speaker B: They got rid of the judge, that would have been the most fair.
[00:26:03] Speaker A: Yeah. I think because of the legal technicalities.
And let me tell you that, prosecutor, if you ever watch this, you are a terrible human being.
[00:26:12] Speaker B: We don't like you. You are not invited on this podcast. But the judges, the judge that got recused, call us.
[00:26:18] Speaker A: I would love her because she seemed like she was just a take charge woman.
[00:26:22] Speaker B: Yeah. But let.
[00:26:23] Speaker A: I think that wraps up this. But let us know how you feel. Watch the Netflix documentary. It honestly was one of the best things I've watched on True crime because it had so much of her on there.
[00:26:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:36] Speaker B: So like Lauren said, let us know your thoughts and we'll see you next week.
