Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:07] Speaker B: And I'm Lauren and welcome to another episode of the Llamas podcast.
[00:00:12] Speaker A: And tonight we're gonna start talking about the holidays and homicide and like murders related through Thanksgiving through Christmas.
But since this is our first, like holiday season episode, I thought you could, we could just get, you know, could learn a little bit more about us.
So we're going to tell you what our favorite Christmas movies are. So, Lacy, you go first.
[00:00:36] Speaker B: So one of my favorite Christmas movies is I'll Be Home for Christmas with Jonathan Taylor Thomas.
Mark doesn't like it, so I have, I watch it usually if he's not around or something like that. If I'm going to bed, I watch it in the bed. But it really is just one of my favorite Christmas movies. I, Krista, my best friend, loved JTT growing up and he was just so adorable. And I don't know, I just think that movie, it's got Jessica Beal in it, but I think so many people forget about that movie. But it is, it's so funny. It's so cute.
I just love it. So. Yeah, so that's one of my favorite Christmas movies. And, and a lot of people probably don't know that about me. So what's yours?
[00:01:18] Speaker A: I'm a classics person. My favorite Christmas movie is White Christmas.
This, what 1950s movie. Bing Crosby, Danny K, Rosemary Clooney, who is George Clooney's aunt. For all of you that don't know that it's emotional, I love it. I cry every time. And every time they have it on the big screen, I will go see it because I just, I love it. But I had never seen it on the big screen till probably about six, seven years, no, maybe eight years ago at this point. And I had it on for some special.
And it was awesome getting to see it in the movie theater. And last year they had it in the movie theaters, I guess for it's like 70th anniversary or something.
So me and my dad and Kylie went to it. Kylie said it was boring, which obviously is a five year old. It probably is. My husband does not like it either. He says it's boring. But I love it. I cry. No. And if we're. It's just. And I love the music, the soundtrack. It's one of my favorites.
All happy, sappy, lovey dovey like make you feel good. And we're going to do the exact opposite of that right now by talking about people getting murdered at the holidays. Yeah.
[00:02:32] Speaker B: And if you're watching us on YouTube, this is what happens sometimes when you follow Llama's podcast? We do the law. We mama. And sometimes we have briefs and appeals and clients that just need, you know, extra attention right now with the holidays coming up and with their matters. And, you know, I feel like me and Lauren both right now are just trying to fill everybody's cup and try to be there for everybody that we can at, at our best. And it's really hard right now for us. So we are getting us late at night at our homes.
[00:03:09] Speaker A: I'm in my pajamas, no makeup, and a pimple patch.
[00:03:13] Speaker B: I haven't took my makeup off only because I have not stopped all day. Like, sitting down just now is the first time I've kind of stopped. I didn't leave the office till about 6 o', clock, so it's fine.
[00:03:26] Speaker A: But.
[00:03:27] Speaker B: So, Lauren, you have a Christmas story, I have a New Year's story. So where do you want to start?
[00:03:33] Speaker A: I guess we can start since we're starting the holiday season. This is the first week in December.
Let's talk about my story first. So we are going to be bringing you different stories related to holiday murders, mayhem, trauma, all that stuff for this month.
[00:03:52] Speaker A: And then at the end, we may want to get your feedback on our January podcast episodes. But this one, we're going murder and mayhem. So there is a story. It comes from Covina, California, and I don't know if any of y' all watch the TV show Crazy Ex Girlfriend, but it was in West Covina, California. So when I was looking at this one and learning about it, I, I just. The songs from Crazy Ex Girlfriend were in my head. But in this story, it is Christmas Eve night and I cannot. I. I'm terrible with names, so I should have, like, wrote all this down. But there is a Hispanic family. They are the Ortegas, I think. Ortegas, Ortegas, something like that. They are in Covina, California. They are a big family. It's mom and dad and they have, I believe, six children, either four or six children. There's a good many kids. And every year on Christmas Eve, they have this huge Christmas party where the kids, the grandkids all come over and have a Christmas party.
Well.
[00:04:56] Speaker A: During the span of this Christmas party, there's cops called and the house pretty much blows up.
[00:05:03] Speaker B: And.
[00:05:03] Speaker A: But before that, you hear this story of people.
There was a gunman. So what happened is there was at this Christmas party and typically a neighbor would stop by dressed as Santa Claus for the little kids to enjoy and everything.
Well, the doorbell rings. One of the grandchildren goes and opens the door. She's a little girl and it's Santa. So she obviously lets him in because she thinks it is.
They're used to Santa coming. She lets him in. Santa opens fire.
Santa shoots the little girl in the face.
[00:05:44] Speaker A: Santa shoots a little girl in the face, hits her in the cheek. She does survive. She is, it is very rare to survive a gunshot to the face. She survives Santa execution style, kills the mom and the dad and a sister.
So. And the rest. There are about 30 people in the house at this time.
And so all the people are trying to scramble to get out all those type things. Then in the span of this, the house blows up, pretty much catches on fire. Super fire blows up. And so the cops.
[00:06:18] Speaker B: Santa in the house when it blew up?
[00:06:20] Speaker A: Yes. But Santa does escape.
[00:06:25] Speaker A: So we have Santa escape. So all this is happening in Covina, California on Christmas eve night, about 45 minutes away. And I think it's some S word in California.
A man comes home at three in the morning.
A man who lives alone typically comes home at three in the morning and finds his front door open. And then he goes in and he sees his brother is dead on the couch.
[00:06:54] Speaker A: So we have like these two big events happening on Christmas Eve night. The brother calls 911.
They come out. At first they thought it was a murder because he was shot dead. The door was kicked open. Like they thought somehow he'd been murdered.
[00:07:14] Speaker A: Turns out this man had burns, third degree burns all down his arms.
[00:07:22] Speaker A: And there was red.
[00:07:25] Speaker A: Fabric like burned into his skin pretty much. So they start. So these are two different police forces because they're not in the same county.
Well, word gets to the other and then stuff starts to be figured out.
So there was. They got the keys of the guy that was dead in the house.
He had his keys on him. So the police just. And this was all, I think back in 2008, so we didn't have all the smartphones we do now we were using and flip phones, you know, that type stuff. So technology wasn't quite where we are today. But the police just get. The cars did have the clickers on them. So the police go outside and start clicking the thing. They found the car inside. The car was a pretty much bomb.
So when they opened the car door, it blew up.
Did it kill the cops? No, it didn't kill anybody. The car just blew up. I guess the cops like jumped back, the car blew up. But before that they did see there was a Santa suit in the car before it blew up.
So then the cops keep tracking this guy's steps. So turns out this guy had made a plan to. There was a car he had rented in his name. We're just gonna call him Bob because I can't remember her name. So there was a rented a car from like Hertz. They tracked down the GPS location on that car.
It was parked about two blocks from an attorney's house.
[00:08:56] Speaker B: Interesting.
[00:08:58] Speaker A: This attorney was his ex wife's divorce attorney.
[00:09:05] Speaker A: So once all this starts to piece together, him, this guy was married to one of the Ortega children. He was married to the daughter.
They had got divorced.
So once all the pieces started to feel together, they. This guy had originally he was married to. Her name was Sylvia. She was one of the children of the Ortegas. They had got divorced because he had lied to her for years because he had a disabled. He had a child.
His child got into the pool while he was at home.
And because of that the child did not die, suffered brain damage.
[00:09:52] Speaker A: But he just abandoned this child, put him in a nursing home, pretended he didn't exist.
But on their tax returns it. The woman saw he was claiming this dependent so everything like started going hersley. What's going on? So when she realized that she divorced him, this guy, he had a child. Not until she realized that when they got married and filed taxes together.
[00:10:16] Speaker B: How long were they married?
[00:10:18] Speaker A: About a year.
[00:10:19] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:10:20] Speaker A: I mean he just put the kid in the nursing home because the kid was so brain damaged from where he let him fall in the pool. So I don't know how he wasn't arrested on some type of neglect charge there. But he wasn't drowning.
[00:10:33] Speaker B: Accidents can happen on anybody's watching so fast.
[00:10:37] Speaker A: He was asleep in the house.
[00:10:39] Speaker B: But I mean, I mean the kid.
[00:10:41] Speaker A: Might have and drunk.
Okay, that changes it.
But so he, this kid drowned, didn't die from it, but had so much water so that. So she figures that out. This guy is actually an engineer for NASA.
So he is a very huh.
[00:11:02] Speaker B: Killer. Santa Bob is a NASA engineer.
[00:11:06] Speaker A: He works as a contractor for NASA and different government entities. So he's a very, very smart individual. He has above nor IQ intelligence.
So he has devised. So they got divorced.
She left him in about March or April.
Their divorce was finalized. So California law is obviously different than South Carolina. And their divorce was actually finalized on December 18th, right before Christmas.
So the whole plan was he had created. So I told you he's an engineer because I want everybody know how smart he is.
He had created this whole shed in his backyard where he was creating this very intense like bomb.
[00:11:53] Speaker A: To blow the house up.
[00:11:56] Speaker B: But.
[00:11:56] Speaker A: And when he had his Santa suit, he had lighters and fluid and lighter stuff on him to be able to set this bomb off.
What he didn't realize.
So when he went into the house and he started shooting, there were actually open flames in the house. So because of that, the bomb exploded.
[00:12:19] Speaker A: So his plan was to always massacre this whole family of 30 people.
But because the family had candles, not like open flames, like doing something bad. They just. It was Christmas Eve. They had candles. But because of those candles, when he started shooting and all this other stuff, the flames ignited his homemade bomb. And so he was right at the door. So he got out. But had it not been for that bomb, all the people that died were not burn victims. The people that died were people who shot and couldn't get out of the house.
So but for that bomb exploding when it did, probably he would have killed all 30 people in that house.
[00:12:58] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[00:13:00] Speaker A: And his plan was after they did realize everything.
That's why I had the getaway car at the divorce attorney's house, because his plan was to go murder the divorce attorney. And the car he had rented was filled with clothes, food, snacks, like, everything, and, like, all these brochures about going to Mexico. So his plan was to kill all 30 people in this family, go kill the divorce attorney, and then drive over the border to Mexico.
But the only reason that did not happen was because the bomb went off. And when the bomb went off, it did sing him. A lot of the family was, you know, to get burns and stuff, but it singed him so bad, the Santa suit adhered to his arms.
And because it adhered to his arms, he was in a lot of pain.
So he got back home and realized his plan was falling apart. Well, not home. He decided to go to his brother's house. Don't know why he picked his brother's house at this point, but I don't know, maybe to, like, he thought maybe he could go there, get help and still be on his way. But his brother was out at a friend's house partying or something. So, like, I think what they think is he was just in so much pain because the burns were so intense and the Santa suit was singed to him.
He shot the ceiling first. There was a hole in the ceiling for some reason. So he did, like, a shot to the ceiling, and then he killed himself.
But had it not been for this open flame, instead of just nine people dying, 30 people probably would have died on Christmas Eve, all because of a pissed off ex husband.
And while I Know, we think in the attorney world that some of us that aren't in the criminal world don't have fears and worries.
He was gonna go kill that family law attorney.
[00:14:56] Speaker B: And I think we both have heard, like, being a family court attorney is one of the more dangerous jobs. Like, you know, people look at me being in criminal defense and think it's that I'm going into jails, I'm going into prisons, you know, stuff like that. But I've always said, no, it's family law attorneys that I think are the most at risk of harm.
[00:15:16] Speaker A: And it was just like, yeah, he was gonna kill. Even though this family law attorney just did their job, right? Nothing personal, which I've had an attorney that does the tight work. I do probate, litigation. Say he's had a gun pulled on him before.
So any.
[00:15:35] Speaker B: We went to school with a friend named Kelsey, and her dad is now a judge, but he was a family court attorney. They did general practice, a bunch of things, but, you know, that man pulled a gun on him, and I think it, like, it messed up, and it shot the glass out of his office. So he wasn't shot. But I'm pretty sure it was a family matter that. That stemmed from kind of crazy.
[00:16:03] Speaker A: And this person, the thing is, like, he had no criminal record.
Everybody, like, you hear, like, his neighbors talk about him, and he was this good, happy guy. He was very in shape, active. He did have an accident where he tore his ACL.
[00:16:22] Speaker A: At some point, and he'd gained weight and wasn't as happy. And they thought his, like, change in personality at the time was just due to, you know, when you're hurt, you don't feel good.
He was used to being an active person, but obviously he had government clearance and stuff. This is not some person that you ever would expect to go blow up this whole family all because of a divorce.
That's insane.
It really shows you be careful who you marry, because you get divorced over that.
[00:16:58] Speaker B: Like, she might have not seen any flags at all, but I will.
I don't know. I feel like a lot of times there are flags, but that's just something.
I don't even know how you would uncover that beforehand.
[00:17:09] Speaker A: No, I truly don't. Like, you're not gonna ask somebody, let me see your tax returns before. Unless you're doing, like, a prenup where you're both rich or something.
[00:17:19] Speaker B: But normal people, they always do prenups, right? Attorneys say that because if she had done a prenup and tax records were disclosed, she would have seen It. Yeah.
[00:17:28] Speaker A: And maybe that would have changed her opinion before she got married. But at the same point, I guess if he was as crazy, would he have went this crazy just because she didn't marry him? I don't know. But it was luckily the little girl who was shot in the face did survive. But out it was six siblings. So out of the six siblings, only one survived.
And the two parents were shot and then two. There were nine people murdered there.
[00:17:58] Speaker B: In.
[00:17:58] Speaker A: A little small town because they said in Covina there's very little Clark crime. It's a little happy town. And it was just, I don't know, it was crazy. So that was a Christmas murder. Let's hear about some New Year's chaos.
[00:18:12] Speaker B: So my husband actually helped me find this story. He found it very interesting and fascinating. So.
So yeah, so my story is out of Colorado in guffy. So this woman, she.
Her son was in high school and her and her husband had gotten a divorce. So the son was just kind of struggling a little bit. But it was New Year's Eve and he wanted to spend it with his grandparents on dad's side. So she was like, yeah, that's fine, you know, go to your grandparents house and they live like on a lot of land.
So he went and she said that, you know, just call me at midnight, right? So, so midnight goes by, he doesn't call and she's like, well, you know, maybe fell asleep doing other stuff. And one of his friends, Isaac, was supposed to come stay the night. So she didn't think too much of it.
The next day someone goes over to the house. I can't remember who, but they find the grandparents murdered. They were shot.
[00:19:15] Speaker B: The grandma was like in the bathroom with defensive wounds and the grandpa was shot like I think near the door.
So.
[00:19:24] Speaker B: They notify the kids. And so, you know, one of the kids calls mom, ex wife and says, hey, you know, my mom and dad were murdered. And she's like, what do you mean? And so they're like, yeah, they were shot. And she goes, where's Tony, her son? And they didn't find him. So he was not in the house. So she's like, I wonder if he's in his fort. So apparently her son had this like underground fort somewhere on the land.
So they tell the police like that, you know, her son had stayed the night with his grandparents that he might be in this fort. So they go out to the fort and they go down and they find Tony with his neck slashed and dead. Yes.
So at that point they, you know, of Course, start investigating.
I can't remember if it's like the same day or a couple days later, but eventually somebody else gets murdered as well.
And the weapon used were weapons from the grandparents house. So they knew, you know, this was the same people essentially, but they didn't really know what was going on. So eventually they talked to Tony and like two other names that they get. They all give this alibi and go on about. But when they talk to not Tony, I might have said Tony.
[00:20:47] Speaker A: I was about to say it wasn't my friend.
[00:20:50] Speaker B: So they talked to Isaac and two other guys and they all give this like very same story, like almost to a T. And they have these alibis. But Isaac was talking about a watch that Tony had. He goes, well, when's the last time you saw Tony? He goes, well, I didn't go over there New Year's Eve, I stayed home.
But he had mentioned this watch. And so when they said, well, you know, where's. When's the last time you saw him? He said, well, I hadn't seen him since school at out. So they're like, okay. But they knew that was a lie because when they identified Tony as Tony, the mom said, I just gave him a watch for Christmas with flames on it. She described the watch and the watch was on the body. So that's how they knew it was him.
So when Isaac mentioned something about the watch and that he hadn't seen him since Christmas, they knew that that was not true. So you know, they're always like, you know, I wonder like kind of what going on. So eventually they call Tony back in with his parents, follow up, not Isaac, sorry.
Late at night, Isaac in for another interview. And like I said, Isaac was Tony's best friend. Like they grew up together, they did everything together. So they call him in to this interview to kind of like figure out what exactly is going on because they knew he had lied. Like why.
So with his parents in the room, he eventually confesses to literally slashing his best friend's throat.
[00:22:21] Speaker B: Yes. So he was in the fort with Tony, murdered him.
And the two other guys that were friends with Isaac went in the house and shot the grandparents. One was like a driver. And then I think Isaac and one of the other guys went, shot the grandparents.
So. And I mean, the mom just collapses. I mean her like literally. These are high school kids.
[00:22:45] Speaker A: Well, yeah. And you never said your son to be a murderer. Yeah.
[00:22:49] Speaker B: So they bring in the other two guys eventually. They like at first they were kind of sticking to their story.
Eventually they start talking and then they get the name of this guy, this kid named Simon Sue. So Simon, also extremely intelligent, very, very smart, goes to high school with them.
Apparently he started.
Well I don't like there was this political group in South America and I don't know if he was a part of it. I don't know if he was from South America or how he got there.
Ideals and ideologies and started it there. But basically it was almost like a gang essentially he had started. And so Isaac and the other two kids were part of this. Not Tony, not the kid that died, but these other guys, well they had like messed up something and so they were put on probation. So Simon sue told Isaac in order to make it right, he had to murder his best friend and the other two guys had to kill the grandparents.
And so literally they did this at the direction of this other teenager. Oh my gosh.
[00:23:58] Speaker A: Like usually you think of this stuff I guess like honestly though, like you know, in gang initiation, you know, common you gotta kill people. And I guess we always think gang people are super old, but they're not.
[00:24:11] Speaker B: They're really not. They are really not. And so.
[00:24:15] Speaker B: The. They all end up getting convicted and I think, I think they all pled guilty actually. But I mean These are like 16, 17 year old kids, you know, and just so random and just, just doesn't make any sense. And it did make me think about Charles Manson, you know. And one thing I like about what me and you do, Lauren, is bringing out that legal aspect of it. And so I don't know if Simon sue was convicted of murder or conspiracy to commit murder. I want to say it was conspiracy to commit murder.
But you know, we think about Charles Manson and you get shivers and think of all these bad things he did.
[00:24:53] Speaker A: But he never did it.
[00:24:55] Speaker B: He didn't do it. He convinced others to do it. And that's very similar to this.
There was nothing saying Simon sue was there.
I don't think he was there at all. He literally just directed other people to do it and they did it. Like you know. So from a legal aspect, like do you still feel that is the equivalent to murder?
[00:25:18] Speaker B: How does someone get to that point that that's acceptable to listen to somebody?
[00:25:25] Speaker A: I guess that's the thing. Yes, I think it is the point of murder. I think Charles Manson is, you know, evil and he, you know, did cause these people. But how do you become the cult leader? I guess to where you get that much. Like if you came and told me we need to kill somebody, I'm not just Gonna be like, cool, let's do it. I mean, I guess it'd be different if you're like, I'm in an abusive relationship. I'm gonna die, help me get out type situation, but just.
But I guess kind of thing.
[00:25:58] Speaker B: The kids were scared that Simon sue would kill them if they didn't. And I understand that. I really do. But, like, Lauren, you're one of my best friends. If somebody told me that I'd go into the police, I'm like, listen. And I got myself in a situation. I need witness protection or something, but there's no way I could do that. Like, I. I think I would risk my own life before I could ever do something like that.
[00:26:21] Speaker A: Well, you know, it does make me think of that situation, you know, where that girl told that boy to go kill himself and, like, kept pushing him to do it while he was sitting. Like, he, like, died because he turned the car on and sat in the garage with the car on.
And, like, they did find her guilty because she kept telling him he was wanting to back out, and she kept pushing him. No, do it. Do it. Like, you can do this.
You can do this. Should not be used for murder. You can do this. Should be like, yeah, finish that marathon. Not.
That is crazy. And it's up. I will say all these two Christmas stories or holiday stories, they're both sad.
[00:27:02] Speaker A: And really depressing, but I can't tell you which one I think is more depressing. A man, a scorned ex spouse, like, trying to pretty much massacre a family or two little old people and their grandson getting brutally murdered New Year's Eve.
[00:27:18] Speaker B: By your grandson's best friend.
Like, that's just what I can't.
That, like, the other two kids killing the grandparents is terrible. I'm not saying that it wasn't. But for a teenager to be murdered.
[00:27:30] Speaker A: By his very best friend and to slash his throat.
[00:27:33] Speaker B: Yeah, like, I mean, he's in his fourth. Like, probably his safe haven, where he thinks, you know, all is right in the world. His most comfortable spot, probably where, you know, he feels his best and never would think, you know, being in there with your best friend, that you're in danger.
[00:27:52] Speaker A: That is some awful and sad stories. I will say, as I said before, the holidays can bring out some of the biggest emotions. And I think probably. I do not think that in the case of the teenage boys, I don't think it was the holidays. But I do think in the case of the man murdering the family, he'd planned it out for a long time, but I think your divorce being finalized December 18th definitely played a part in it because he was alone for Christmas and his ex wife was with all her family. So I think there were a lot more.
I guess in all reality, his was a crime of passion where the other boys were not. Like his was enraged passion, terrible.
But you could see where he came from because he's mad and scorned.
[00:28:38] Speaker B: But it explains it a lot more than the New year story.
[00:28:44] Speaker A: Like, we want to justify why stuff happens so that you can see justification. But we will continue down these holidays and murders and all those type things for this next month. But just we may put a poll out on our Instagram about what we may want to talk about in January. So be on the lookout for that.
[00:29:05] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:29:06] Speaker A: All right.
[00:29:07] Speaker B: Until then, we'll see you next week.
[00:29:09] Speaker A: Bye.
