Episode Transcript
[00:00:05] Speaker A: Hey, everybody. Welcome back. It's Lacey, and I'm Lauren.
And welcome to another episode of the Llamas Podcast.
And if you haven't heard our introduction episode yet, the Llamas Podcast, we came together because me and Lauren are both attorneys, so we're in the law and we're both mamas.
That's why we combined at Llama's Podcast. So we're here to talk about just balancing legal life with our mom life and those kinds of topics.
[00:00:40] Speaker B: And so we're trying to be a little bit better at giving you outlines on our podcast coming up so you'll know what you're going to learn in today's episode. So for today, we want to talk about outsourcing and hiring staff. And as a business owner, the ability, like, when should you do it and what are the pros and cons of it? And, you know, finding that right fit for you and your office.
[00:01:03] Speaker A: Yeah. And adding into that, Lauren, I want to talk about outsourcing at home, too, with the home life and things that we can do to take some things off of our plate, being entrepreneurs and running a business and being so busy.
But before we get there, I did have somebody reach out in a Facebook message with a legal question.
And I am not going to give specifics on the question because I don't want anything to lead to this person. But, Lauren, it was a probate question. So my question is if a relative passes away, and let's just say it's one of my relatives in Ohio or something like that is a will, public record. So if I wanted to know if anything was left to me, a personal item or anything, or again, my sirens, is there a way for me to find out what was in someone's will when I'm not like, maybe super close to know that if there was one that existed.
[00:01:58] Speaker B: So in South Carolina, probate records are public records, so anybody can go in. Typically, I mean, each court's a little different. So some of them, you need to make an appointment, Some just have computers you can use. But it is public record, so you should be able, once a will is probated, to see the wheel. And then realistically, if you are an intestate heir, so that means if the person didn't have a will and you would have inherited, you would get noticed that the will was filed under South Carolina law. Now, you know, I can't guarantee every like person does things ethically or right, but you should be able to find the will.
[00:02:41] Speaker A: Okay. And so if you had an inheritance, you would Be notified by the court. They would just mail a letter or something.
[00:02:49] Speaker B: Yes. Usually you'll get notice in the mail that if you are an heir of a will or if you were in test state and were left out, you would get noticed.
[00:02:57] Speaker A: Okay. Okay. I thought it was interesting because I didn't know because y'all know I do criminal law. Lauren does probate. So when I saw that question, it's very interesting to me, and I just didn't know. So that was some good information. So, Lauren, you mentioned we were gonna. You want to talk about outsourcing today? Is there anything that kind of like, sparked that topic this week that. That while you wanted to talk about it or has anything come up as to outsourcing?
[00:03:25] Speaker B: So I guess for me, I think that has been one of the scariest parts is like a business owner is knowing when should I, like, let hire somebody else or when should I, like, give projects to someone else? Because for one, you know, that's money being spent. And as a small business owner, anytime we spend money, we're always nervous, is this going to be a return for our investment? But over the past, like, two months, we hired a new paralegal back in, I believe it was June. And so over the past, you know, a few months from June, I have noticed what help she has been and has made my life so much easier. So even though it was really scary thinking about giving her that salary, our firm's actually making more money now than before because I can bill more she's billing, and it's made my life a lot easier. So I think that was just something I wanted to touch on for other business owners that even though it's really scary, sometimes it works out in our favor to do things like that and to get rid of those tasks that we don't like doing. So, for instance, for me, I'm not good at social media. I'm not good at, like, making sure posts go out and those type things. And also it takes a lot of effort and a lot of skill and keeping up with like, those Google algorithms and all that stuff, outsourcing, like our marketing to somebody else who's better at it, and paying them to do it gets us a better return than me trying to spend my time doing it. So I think just a combination of all those type things made me want to talk about it for other business owners.
[00:05:05] Speaker A: Yeah. And I definitely agree, so especially like with the marketing. So my undergraduate degree was in broadcast journalism. So, you know, someone ties in with marketing and I see these attorneys making these Videos and do these podcasts for years and stuff like that. And so, you know, as social media continued to kind of blow up and be a big marketing source for attorneys, I thought that it was something I could do, but I didn't. I never did because I never had the time. So I do feel like my firm is kind of behind because I didn't outsource it sooner. We do have a marketing team now, but I'm really just kind of.
I really do wish we would have done it. We would have outsourced that sooner. So I think sometimes it's timing as well, and I definitely think we missed the mark on timing with that and outsourcing it. But it was scary and I was like, I'm just going to do it. I'll get around to it. I'm going to do it. But I think it's important to say if you're going to get around to it, maybe set maybe a deadline. So if there's something that you want to do in your firm and you do not want to outsource source, maybe set a deadline in 90 days or six months. And if you haven't done it, that's your cue to outsource it, to know that, you know what, I don't have the time to do this. This is not something I can do and keep up with because I do think, like I said, I think it's hurt us now trying to play catch up in the marketing field digitally because I just kind of was complacent at where we were and I just wanted to do it my way. And I just knew with my background I could do it. And the thing is, I'm cap capable of doing a lot of this stuff, probably not all of it for sure, but I am capable of doing a good bit. But you're right, I don't have time. I mean, I've already been in court this morning. I have a client meeting later this afternoon. I've been in court, I think, almost every single day on Tuesday or I think it's Tuesday or Wednesday. I got stuck in court for three hours for one plea that took 10 minutes. But there were so many pleas before mine. It was like murder plea day. So they were long pleased. And so it mean that's a whole afternoon. I'm out of the office for one case that took 10 minutes for me to do. But, you know, so that's a day where I said I had other things to do and I was going to do them when I got by the office and I didn't I didn't have time to come back. So I just think it's important too with outsourcing is, you know, maybe setting deadlines for yourself and if you don't get to it, know that you're, you're full.
So.
[00:07:41] Speaker B: Yeah, and I think you have to look at it from like a financial standpoint with it too. Like think about, okay, like maybe this is something I think I'm competent to do, but is it worth my time to do it? So for me just to throw out math out there. So like I bill, you know, right now I bill at 250 an hour. So say it takes me and I'm not going to be say it's a computer issue. We outsource our computer, our IT to somebody because I'm not good at it. Today it took me like two hours to Google it, to figure out how to fix it, YouTube it, and then, you know, figure out some way to fix it. That's 500 available time I wasted. But if I can pay my IT guy, I believe he's a hundred dollars an hour and he can fix it in 30 minutes because he's not me and he's proficient in it. I paid him $50 and billed my 500. So I'm looking at 450 profit, where instead I'm looking at still I lost two hours of billable time for me. So I think you have to weigh things in an economic standpoint too. Like what's your strengths, what's your weaknesses? What is it you don't want to do? Like I can't do payroll. I don't understand it. I don't know anything about it. So like, I don't need to do it for one. But like, if I was going to do it, it would take me so much time. I would have sucked out a whole day's worth of billing instead of just paying my accountant to handle my payroll.
[00:09:02] Speaker A: Kind of thing, you know. And that's actually something we recently outsourced because I used to do all our payroll stuff, most of it. So. And I enjoyed it. I do enjoy working in our books and accounting and stuff like that, but.
And I am taking a little bit back because we out we hired an associate and that was really scary for me.
Just like I've. And I'm not saying it wasn't scary for my law partner Laura either.
I think it was scary for both of us because we just worked so well together. So to think that there's like a third person that's like minded with us was just Hard. But, Lauren, I was in court every day, morning, afternoon. I mean, I barely had time to review the cases before going in. I mean, it was. It was so just. And even Mark was saying just how drained I was. And I want to take one of my. So one of the contracts I used to do for the public defender's office was a bond court contract, which meant I would go out to the jail here at Alvin S. Glenn and provide attorney services for people going to bond court that day that had been arrested. Well, I took a step back from that bond court contract because I didn't have time, and I really enjoyed it. And that was really sad and hard for me to let go. But now I'm able to pick that back up. I'm able to do something that I enjoy doing work wise. And I can put it back on my plate now that I have my associate. Because where as like, I would go out there on Fridays, on Fridays, I was scrambling to get out there. So my mind was just scrambling because I'd been in court all day and now I'm trying to review the next week. I've got court all, you know, every day the next week. And I wasn't getting any office time, so I had no office time to do the parts of my job that I really do love that bring me so much joy.
And I've got more time now to spend on my cases and invest in my clients, which. That's. That's a return, like you were saying, you know, you do a good job on a case and you get that return because you get referrals and you have happy clients and they leave reviews and that leads to more revenue. And I'm so glad that we got the associate that we've got. And so now I don't have so much court time. It's such a healthy balance because I am definitely an attorney. I do not want to be in the office every day. I will get sidetracked. Um, but it's just. It's nice having a healthy balance. Like me and her sit down with the calendar. All right, you go to this court, I'll go to this court. And it's like, oh, this is nice. I might be in court Monday, Wednesday, but Tuesday, Thursday, I have office days and can review my body cams, dig into the books and do the things that I enjoy to do, and just have that balance in my. In my work life.
[00:11:50] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think it's important to know when you need to, like, when to outsource things like, you know, marketing, payroll, computer and when to bring somebody in to help you take cell phones, that was like us. We were swamped with a lot of work that, like just getting stuff. In my line of work, I have a lot of printing to do, a lot of copying, a lot of scanning, a lot of making sure the files are accurate after somebody does their wheel. And we were just over like our phone. So we had outsourced our phone systems. We realized that did not work because we need to have somebody in house answering the phones. So when we brought our phones back in house, our front desk was just swamped answering the phones. And so we've had to hire somebody to really help on other stuff. But it has made my life so much easier. And it was scary because especially when you're bringing on somebody new, you're promising them a salary, a set amount of money. But if it's the right person and the right fit, it makes your life easier. Like with your associate, she's made your life easier. And you're probably going to be more profitable in the long run because you can balance each other and there's work done that you're not getting sucked out. And I will say it is scary in small offices bringing on somebody because it's not like a big company where like, if there's one person you don't like, you just avoid them. We all see each other all the time, every day.
[00:13:14] Speaker A: Well, and being able to look at the books, you know, I can officially say, like, we have done better financially having an associate and the quality of work we've done, I think is so much better too in having her and kind of what you were talking about with the phone system. So my cousin Paige is my paralegal. She does not live here in Columbia. She lives in the upstate. So she worked remote for a while and it's just kind of a job she fell into. She was just needing some. Something to do and I needed help. And it's just kind of turned into a career path for. And she's great at it.
And for a while she was remote. And this year we had to start bringing her into the office a lot more. So that's another thing you have to into consideration because it I, you know, it's easier and it is cheaper to have remote work. But you know, there had to be a pay increase with coming into the office and being here.
But it was worth it because it's so nice to have her here to answer the phones, pop into my office to explain certain situations, run up and down the hall to get things Done. Just having her here makes my life so much easier when I'm in the office. And it's even the simple things. When I was stuck in court, I texted her, I have a migraine. Can you bring me a coffee? So just her being here and be able to come up to the court because I didn't feel good and just having those little things too. So it's, you know, it's been also such a benefit for us in moving her from remote more to in the office to have help here. I definitely think, like you said, outsourcing the phones was. Was hard.
Outsourcing her, like being remote was difficult. It started getting difficult. It's been so much easier and better having her here and working in person. And it just. I think it makes us just a better staff and presents a better unit to our clientele.
[00:15:17] Speaker B: I agree with that completely. I think when Covid hit and a lot of us were remote due to the COVID stuff and all the scares, a lot of people got into the remote work. But like in our line of work, it's hard to be remote. We need to be able to talk to each other and like just people walking in the office, like, right. We only had one person like here. If I was the only one here, like working in person and we just had to deal with random walk in people or clients need something notarized, just little stuff.
It was a headache. But now that we have multiple people in the office, and I'm not saying remote work doesn't work in some situations, but there are definitely times where it is worth it to have a person in here with you to be able to help make sure the office runs smoothly. Because if you're sitting there answering the phones all day or having to just deal with people coming in, you can't get to the real work. You're just stressed too much with little stuff.
[00:16:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
And just.
[00:16:17] Speaker B: I will say on that.
[00:16:19] Speaker A: Yeah, go ahead. No, go ahead. I was going to change topics.
[00:16:26] Speaker B: I just wanted to say that in the attorney world, we have a very bad reputation for treating our staff horrible.
I would like to think that my staff is treated well and we treat them like family.
I have heard though, one of my paralegals has told me a story about another paralegal she knew at a different law firm who got. Got yelled at for heating up her Pop Tart during work time.
Yeah, yelled at for heating up a Pop Tart.
So I just want this to go out. If any other attorneys are working, be nice to your paralegals. Be nice to Your admins be nice to everybody in your office, because you wouldn't survive without them.
[00:17:04] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. I do feel like our firm, we are so much like a family unit.
And I love. I mean, my associate got married on Saturday, and me and Mindy were holding hands, crying, and we wouldn't be that way if we didn't have that family dynamic. You know what I'm saying? I mean, there's been times where I think all of us has gone to somebody else in this firm in tears just over something at home. And they just have that, you know, support and be understanding. You know, we're all human. Life is hard. And, you know, they may be your staff, you might need them there, but balance that with the time. Sometimes they don't need to be here. Life is hard. Be graceful. Be graceful and gracious. Because like you said, if you. If you are that way, they are gonna. They're gonna invest in you, and they're going to give you 100% if you give them that grace and understanding and kindness like you were talking about. Just absolute kindness.
[00:18:06] Speaker B: Yes. Attorneys treat your staff good.
[00:18:08] Speaker A: Yes. And when I said, like, oh, I didn't know that, but now that I kind of think about it, I have heard some stories, too, and I hesitate to say it, but I'm gonna say it. It is a. I hear it from. From male attorneys, and it's female staff members. And I'm not saying they're.
But I. I just think women are very compassionate and empathetic. I think sometimes we are approachable with certain situation.
I don't know if that was the situation your staff member was in, but I would encourage male or female, have an openness with your staff to make it so that they're comfortable to come to you when things are hard. Because if they're not doing their job, if something's not going right, and they've always been great at their job, there could be something else going on. And not that it's your job to be nosy, but if you create that open environment for them to just be able to come and talk with you, you might find out that they meet, like, just a mental health day or two mental health days, and they come back and they're refreshed and they're ready to go, and they're back at giving you 100%. And if you didn't create that openness, you might miss out. You might think that, oh, they're just a slack employee now, when in reality, they had something else going on. And if you create that Openness and kind of like an open door policy. You can come and talk to me about anything.
You know, you now have that staff member back at 100% just because they had. They were able to come to you and sit down and talk to you. And I know that's something that me and a lot of other female attorneys, you know, talk about. And we have those dynamics with our staff. And I guess I hate to stereotype, but I do think sometimes it's lost. So I would encourage, you know, male attorneys I'm speaking to, you know, take this into consideration. Maybe do some reflection and if you look in the mirror and think, hey, some of these things hit home, that might be something you can implement as well with your outsourcing and how you, you know, with your staff when you outsource stuff.
An open dynamic.
[00:20:13] Speaker B: I think a lot of that, I think sometimes. So I have seen a lot of, kind of a lot of the older attorneys, older male attorneys have treated their staff a little bit better than the male attorneys in our age group because I think the older ones have known how just from like, CNS and from my. One of my paralegals has been a paralegal for a long time, and she's very experienced and worked for a lot of different people. And kind of seeing that, I think they respected all the work. And I think sometimes in our generation, people like, we're familiar with the computer, we just get on and do stuff. Or the older generation needed help and the paralegals could help them. In our generation, I think a lot of people are just snippy and think, oh, you should do this quicker. You should be faster. And I think our generation, males and females included, need to treat staff with respect because I don't think we're as good at it as some other people.
[00:21:07] Speaker A: Yeah, agreed.
We're kind of running out of time. So I'll just briefly kind of tie in what I was talking about, too. Well, I think it's so important for us as attorneys to outsource work. I think it's equally as important as moms to outsource work, too.
You know, we have somebody that comes and cleans our house. And I say that to say, because I know so many times I've heard somebody say, I, you know, I just, you know, they feel guilty about it or feel guilty for having, you know, ordering takeout and not cooking. And there's so many things we could guilt trip ourselves on. But it's just as important to outsource stuff at home. I get home at almost 6 o'clock, my kids go to bed at 7:30, I have an hour and a half, I don't have time to clean. And on the weekends I'm so tired. But also I have plans with my kids and my husband and a friend of mine, you know, Sarah Cox. So I remember her saying this when she moved out to Texas and started kind of outsourcing some things at home, like, you know, somebody cutting the grass and stuff like that in the house.
You know, she said, listen, my time is limited and it's valuable and when I get to the weekend, I don't have to worry that I got to clean my house. I want to spend time with my kids. And I've really just kind of taken that. If there's something that we can afford that's within our budget and it will increase the time I have with my kids, I'm gonna take advantage of that. And I just think it's important for us as women not to feel guilty and men not to feel as guilty about outsourcing those things. I think so often, you know, we're supposed to cook and you get these stereotypes and stuff like that. No, pick up a pizza meal prep on Sundays or ask some, you know, somebody if they can, you know, do a meal because you're getting home late. I don't know. But you know, let's not be so hard on ourselves when we do outsource stuff at home because our, you know, families are so important. And with running a business, practicing law and dealing with distresses at work, you know, let's not put that on our kids. Let's just, you know, have fun and enjoy it and know that things at home are done because, you know, people helped us. We were able to outsource those things and open up that time for our children and our spouses.
[00:23:26] Speaker B: I agree. 100 like at home for us, we outsource. I have somebody that comes and cleans my house and I have somebody that cuts my grass. My husband works 12 hour shifts, so obviously when he comes home from a 12 hour shift, he's not like cutting grass. And we both have allergies. So like. But I will say I chose to find small business owners to support. So that way I've helping somebody else's family by supporting these small business owners, their jobs too. So I feel blessed that I can outsource, but I want to make sure I'm supporting people that need it as well. And I found small business owners and I love the people that have helped me out and I feel no guilt in ordering that pizza because I would rather get sleep than be up cleaning dishes all night.
[00:24:09] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.
I think that's all the time that we have today, and I think that was a great way to end it. Order the pizza. Y'all outsource.
I think good key points is to, you know, like we had said, maybe put time limits. If you don't get to this, that means you've got too much on your plate and you need to reach out for help.
But if anybody needs referrals for some of these things or questions about, you know, companies that we use to outsource some stuff, definitely feel free to reach out.
[00:24:43] Speaker B: Yes, please feel free to reach out. Does. I'm a fan of using small local businesses, so I'm happy to give you referrals for that. And one other thing I wanted to say before we hop off today is if you have a question, we're open every week to doing, like, starting our podcast with a question from the audience. So whether it's legal, mom stuff, home stuff, or just, you know, this, literally, if you say, oh, this happened in the news, we want to know about the legal side of it or anything like that, feel free to shoot us an email and we'll check those and we'll try to get to your questions. So that way we can have that at the start of every episode like we did today.
[00:25:20] Speaker A: Yep. Awesome. All right, Lauren, well, I've got to go because I have a client meeting and stuff to get done before my last free weekend for, like, a month. So I'll talk to you later.
[00:25:33] Speaker B: Bye.
[00:25:34] Speaker A: Bye, everybody.
